tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post1328775238911315024..comments2024-03-28T08:40:23.164-05:00Comments on Guitar Ted Productions: Materials Vs DesignGuitar Tedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10960580677548417562noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post-28497212355685733202011-01-25T22:36:56.223-05:002011-01-25T22:36:56.223-05:00Joe,
Yes, that was a broad statement and you are c...Joe,<br />Yes, that was a broad statement and you are correct. My meaning was more about he actual OEM cost of making a frame not taking into account the various costs incurred by companies who go to the extra measures to actually engineer and do their own QC on frames - as well as actually being present during production. Going to the TBG for a seat post clamp is one thing. Going to it for a carbon frame is another.<br />Mikeblackmountaincycleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266572418119863606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post-8546224152777297142011-01-25T22:07:48.146-05:002011-01-25T22:07:48.146-05:00Good points Joe. Thanks for offering that perspect...Good points Joe. Thanks for offering that perspective. <br /><br />Cheers,<br />MGMGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00377768960221628840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post-38598939943210226912011-01-25T20:45:29.600-05:002011-01-25T20:45:29.600-05:00Mike, I respectfully disagree with this statement,...Mike, I respectfully disagree with this statement, even knowing your experience. <br /><br />"the cost to make a carbon fiber frame is pretty much the same across the board". <br /><br />It's too broad a generalization. Yes, certainly you are paying for the costs you've outlined, but you are also paying for materials used, factory overhead, the quality of one factory to the next (which can be significant), certainly engineering, testing, and development play a role as well, don't forget quality assurance... There is certainly a difference between a 'big three' manufacturers frame and a 'carbon Walmart' frame in all aspects. <br /><br />Doesn't mean I would spend my own dollars to ride one...but certainly it's not simple enough to make generalizations about all manufacturers.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00478699061413093580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post-74971760781445999812011-01-25T12:12:02.185-05:002011-01-25T12:12:02.185-05:00@blackmountaincycles/Mike: I get your point, but I...@blackmountaincycles/Mike: I get your point, but I think that the "out the back door" carbon sales by Chinese companies, the "rush to the bottom" in terms of price points on carbon road bikes, (in particular), and the over-all perception/misunderstanding about carbon fiber by consumers is quickly making "carbon fiber" the "Kleenex" of frame materials. Just buy the cheapest one you can find, because "they are all the same/good". <br /><br />That's where I see this carbon fiber frame thing going.Guitar Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10960580677548417562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post-40557527738691726932011-01-25T10:38:33.747-05:002011-01-25T10:38:33.747-05:00"Carbon fiber" is not an adjective (some..."Carbon fiber" is not an adjective (someone else came up with that term). Yet, everyone seems to think that it is. At the same time, it is known that there are varying grades of steel and aluminum. A 6061 plain gauge aluminum frame is not the same as an Easton 7005 butted tubeset, yet they are both "aluminum." A hi-ten steel frame is still steel, much like a Reynolds 853 tube is also steel. <br /><br />I think this is less about geometry and more about the bluring of what exactly it is that makes a carbon fiber frame. The truth of the matter is the cost to make a carbon fiber frame is pretty much the same across the board. However, by the time the cost is paid at the cash register, the differences are profound between different brands. Are you paying for a huge marketing effort? Are you paying for the company's in house engineering and design and their mold costs? <br /><br />Everyone knows that a $900 titanium frame is not the same as a $2900 Steve Potts titanium frame, yet that distinction is not so clear among the swoopy, painted curves of a carbon fiber frame. <br /><br />Mikeblackmountaincycleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17266572418119863606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post-21528933539693345242011-01-25T09:45:14.848-05:002011-01-25T09:45:14.848-05:00ya. I like that line too. I wish I could say I'...ya. I like that line too. I wish I could say I've ridden a a carbon bike to say definitively that they're not for me. But they don't make them big enough. Guess that's my answer for sticking with steel...Head Honchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14312759372726068155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12831567.post-56407728292325287932011-01-25T08:58:11.906-05:002011-01-25T08:58:11.906-05:00"Carbon Fiber: The Snake Oil Of Frame Materia..."Carbon Fiber: The Snake Oil Of Frame Materials". <br /><br />Guffah...snicker, snicker. Funny, dat. You are a poke in the eye of the marketing guys, I tell ya.<br /><br />Keep it up.grannygearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06896238587895388993noreply@blogger.com