Production Frames: Good Enough?
Today I'll take a look at the other type of frame sets available out there for 29"ers. The "production frames". If you missed the first two posts in this series you may want to scroll down and catch those first. Essentially what I have done is to define and discuss the custom frame choice. Today it's the production bikes turn.
Production frames are those that are designed with a specific goal in mind, but not tailored to a specific rider and their personal needs. As such, there are compromises made in regards to fit, form, and function to varying degrees. What these compromises are exactly and how they impact your particular riding style and body type can vary widely from one production frame to another.
This is what makes production frames a tough call for a person trying to make a choice on a new bike. Well, that is assuming they know or care about subtle differences in the first place. The vast majority of folks are not going to buy a bike based on those types of criteria. It's too mind boggling and it's easier to base your decisions upon recommendations, price, and heck, even color! That's why sites like mtbr.com, Twenty Nine Inches, and even this blog (to some extent) exist, so folks can gather recommendations and views on different bikes. This makes their decision easier, or validates it, and having to go through an arduous process of elimination is avoided.
Are production frames "good enough"? Well, many times the answer is a resounding "Yes!" I have spoken with several custom builders that have told me that the vast majority of their production varies very little in terms of geometry, tubing spec, and details. This tells me that a lot of us are after the same things. If a production frame company taps into that, (which a lot of them are doing), then much of the performance factor will be there. (The part that matters two months after you buy the bike) What little details remain are what differentiates one brand from another. Then there is that whole perception thing, but this is about production frames, so I'll keep it on topic here!
Then there are production frames that are really cheap. How do they stack up? Well, some are "home runs" and some are just "ho-hum". Keep in mind that although price doesn't always reflect the level of value, it is an indicator of what you might expect. A notable exception would be the Karate Monkey, which is still one of the best handling 29"ers out there four years after it's introduction. (Probably has the most copied geometry of any 29"er too!) It's a relatively inexpensive frame, but packed with value. Some other contenders in the production frame world exist now too, but I'll not get too far into that today.
The best thing to do is to examine your riding style, your expectations, and your budget and make a decision based upon those parameters. Chances are there is a production 29"er out there for you now. Although, that wasn't the case just a few years ago!
Tomorrow I want to get into more 29"er specific territory and see how custom and production frames are tackling the specific challenges of making a 29 inch wheeled bicycle.
Wednesday, June 06, 2007
Frames: Custom, Stock, or Budget? Part III
Production Frames: Good Enough?
Today I'll take a look at the other type of frame sets available out there for 29"ers. The "production frames". If you missed the first two posts in this series you may want to scroll down and catch those first. Essentially what I have done is to define and discuss the custom frame choice. Today it's the production bikes turn.
Production frames are those that are designed with a specific goal in mind, but not tailored to a specific rider and their personal needs. As such, there are compromises made in regards to fit, form, and function to varying degrees. What these compromises are exactly and how they impact your particular riding style and body type can vary widely from one production frame to another.
This is what makes production frames a tough call for a person trying to make a choice on a new bike. Well, that is assuming they know or care about subtle differences in the first place. The vast majority of folks are not going to buy a bike based on those types of criteria. It's too mind boggling and it's easier to base your decisions upon recommendations, price, and heck, even color! That's why sites like mtbr.com, Twenty Nine Inches, and even this blog (to some extent) exist, so folks can gather recommendations and views on different bikes. This makes their decision easier, or validates it, and having to go through an arduous process of elimination is avoided.
Are production frames "good enough"? Well, many times the answer is a resounding "Yes!" I have spoken with several custom builders that have told me that the vast majority of their production varies very little in terms of geometry, tubing spec, and details. This tells me that a lot of us are after the same things. If a production frame company taps into that, (which a lot of them are doing), then much of the performance factor will be there. (The part that matters two months after you buy the bike) What little details remain are what differentiates one brand from another. Then there is that whole perception thing, but this is about production frames, so I'll keep it on topic here!
Then there are production frames that are really cheap. How do they stack up? Well, some are "home runs" and some are just "ho-hum". Keep in mind that although price doesn't always reflect the level of value, it is an indicator of what you might expect. A notable exception would be the Karate Monkey, which is still one of the best handling 29"ers out there four years after it's introduction. (Probably has the most copied geometry of any 29"er too!) It's a relatively inexpensive frame, but packed with value. Some other contenders in the production frame world exist now too, but I'll not get too far into that today.
The best thing to do is to examine your riding style, your expectations, and your budget and make a decision based upon those parameters. Chances are there is a production 29"er out there for you now. Although, that wasn't the case just a few years ago!
Tomorrow I want to get into more 29"er specific territory and see how custom and production frames are tackling the specific challenges of making a 29 inch wheeled bicycle.
Today I'll take a look at the other type of frame sets available out there for 29"ers. The "production frames". If you missed the first two posts in this series you may want to scroll down and catch those first. Essentially what I have done is to define and discuss the custom frame choice. Today it's the production bikes turn.
Production frames are those that are designed with a specific goal in mind, but not tailored to a specific rider and their personal needs. As such, there are compromises made in regards to fit, form, and function to varying degrees. What these compromises are exactly and how they impact your particular riding style and body type can vary widely from one production frame to another.
This is what makes production frames a tough call for a person trying to make a choice on a new bike. Well, that is assuming they know or care about subtle differences in the first place. The vast majority of folks are not going to buy a bike based on those types of criteria. It's too mind boggling and it's easier to base your decisions upon recommendations, price, and heck, even color! That's why sites like mtbr.com, Twenty Nine Inches, and even this blog (to some extent) exist, so folks can gather recommendations and views on different bikes. This makes their decision easier, or validates it, and having to go through an arduous process of elimination is avoided.
Are production frames "good enough"? Well, many times the answer is a resounding "Yes!" I have spoken with several custom builders that have told me that the vast majority of their production varies very little in terms of geometry, tubing spec, and details. This tells me that a lot of us are after the same things. If a production frame company taps into that, (which a lot of them are doing), then much of the performance factor will be there. (The part that matters two months after you buy the bike) What little details remain are what differentiates one brand from another. Then there is that whole perception thing, but this is about production frames, so I'll keep it on topic here!
Then there are production frames that are really cheap. How do they stack up? Well, some are "home runs" and some are just "ho-hum". Keep in mind that although price doesn't always reflect the level of value, it is an indicator of what you might expect. A notable exception would be the Karate Monkey, which is still one of the best handling 29"ers out there four years after it's introduction. (Probably has the most copied geometry of any 29"er too!) It's a relatively inexpensive frame, but packed with value. Some other contenders in the production frame world exist now too, but I'll not get too far into that today.
The best thing to do is to examine your riding style, your expectations, and your budget and make a decision based upon those parameters. Chances are there is a production 29"er out there for you now. Although, that wasn't the case just a few years ago!
Tomorrow I want to get into more 29"er specific territory and see how custom and production frames are tackling the specific challenges of making a 29 inch wheeled bicycle.
Tuesday, June 05, 2007
Frames: Custom, Stock, or Budget? Part II
Custom Frames: Considering The Differences
Today I want to delve into the mystery of custom frames and perhaps show why they might be a choice for your bicycle frame, especially if it's a 29"er. One of the factors that seems to make a custom frame such a mystery to a lot of folks is the price charged for one. How is it that you can buy a complete bicycle, made of steel with 29 inch wheels for under $500.00 and almost all custom frames cost more than that? The gulf of price between the two is bridged by the value each offers the consumer. Once you take a look at the differences, you can begin to see why things are the way they are, and you can better choose what is going to be right for you, the mountain bike rider.
This is especially true, I think, with the 29 inch wheeled bicycle because the geometries are still being experimented with, and up until recently, there were not a lot of choices available at your local bike shop. Custom builders have been inundated with requests to build 29"ers for these reasons and more.
In my view, there are really two different types of frame manufacture. One is production, where a designer comes up with a frame design to satisfy a certain criteria and has it manufactured in numbers of units for sale. Each unit in a particular size being identical to another. The other type is custom, where the design criteria is typically based upon an individual rider and his/her needs. Usually only one frame is produced that reflects this particular design criteria.
As you can see, this more personalized approach to building a frame is going to cost more than a "production frame" just based upon the economy of scale alone. I think most of us can agree on this. However; there is more going on than meets the eye, things like tubing spec, quality of joinery, and geometry that affect the quality of performance. Of course, this is true of any frame, it is just that these details are specifically tailored to the builders ideals and your personal riding style while being tailor made to your size. Things a "production frame", by necessity, has to compromise upon.
So, a custom frame costs more because it's "tailor made" for you, but it also will cost more for other reasons which usually include higher end materials, highly skilled labor, and more attention to details, especially in the finish work. Is a custom "worth it". Well, that is a highly loaded question that requires you to examine your expectations, your riding style, and well.......yourself!
I feel that I am a candidate for a custom based upon a few things. I have a good idea of what I expect out of a bike and what specific purpose I want to use a custom bike for. Secondly, I have a bit of a strange build to my body: long in the leg and shorter in the torso, so I often find that the compromises I must make to fit on a "production frame" are not acceptable all the time. Finally, I just really get weak in the knees for fillet brazing, and there just are not a lot of "production frames" sporting that type of joinery technique. Maybe you fall into one or more of these same reasonings for a custom frame, or maybe you don't. Custom frames are not for everybody and of course, the higher price is going to be a turn off for some based on money alone.
Tomorrow I want to take a closer look at "production frames" and why they may fit the needs of 29"er riders, or not.
Today I want to delve into the mystery of custom frames and perhaps show why they might be a choice for your bicycle frame, especially if it's a 29"er. One of the factors that seems to make a custom frame such a mystery to a lot of folks is the price charged for one. How is it that you can buy a complete bicycle, made of steel with 29 inch wheels for under $500.00 and almost all custom frames cost more than that? The gulf of price between the two is bridged by the value each offers the consumer. Once you take a look at the differences, you can begin to see why things are the way they are, and you can better choose what is going to be right for you, the mountain bike rider.
This is especially true, I think, with the 29 inch wheeled bicycle because the geometries are still being experimented with, and up until recently, there were not a lot of choices available at your local bike shop. Custom builders have been inundated with requests to build 29"ers for these reasons and more.
In my view, there are really two different types of frame manufacture. One is production, where a designer comes up with a frame design to satisfy a certain criteria and has it manufactured in numbers of units for sale. Each unit in a particular size being identical to another. The other type is custom, where the design criteria is typically based upon an individual rider and his/her needs. Usually only one frame is produced that reflects this particular design criteria.
As you can see, this more personalized approach to building a frame is going to cost more than a "production frame" just based upon the economy of scale alone. I think most of us can agree on this. However; there is more going on than meets the eye, things like tubing spec, quality of joinery, and geometry that affect the quality of performance. Of course, this is true of any frame, it is just that these details are specifically tailored to the builders ideals and your personal riding style while being tailor made to your size. Things a "production frame", by necessity, has to compromise upon.
So, a custom frame costs more because it's "tailor made" for you, but it also will cost more for other reasons which usually include higher end materials, highly skilled labor, and more attention to details, especially in the finish work. Is a custom "worth it". Well, that is a highly loaded question that requires you to examine your expectations, your riding style, and well.......yourself!
I feel that I am a candidate for a custom based upon a few things. I have a good idea of what I expect out of a bike and what specific purpose I want to use a custom bike for. Secondly, I have a bit of a strange build to my body: long in the leg and shorter in the torso, so I often find that the compromises I must make to fit on a "production frame" are not acceptable all the time. Finally, I just really get weak in the knees for fillet brazing, and there just are not a lot of "production frames" sporting that type of joinery technique. Maybe you fall into one or more of these same reasonings for a custom frame, or maybe you don't. Custom frames are not for everybody and of course, the higher price is going to be a turn off for some based on money alone.
Tomorrow I want to take a closer look at "production frames" and why they may fit the needs of 29"er riders, or not.
Frames: Custom, Stock, or Budget? Part II
Custom Frames: Considering The Differences
Today I want to delve into the mystery of custom frames and perhaps show why they might be a choice for your bicycle frame, especially if it's a 29"er. One of the factors that seems to make a custom frame such a mystery to a lot of folks is the price charged for one. How is it that you can buy a complete bicycle, made of steel with 29 inch wheels for under $500.00 and almost all custom frames cost more than that? The gulf of price between the two is bridged by the value each offers the consumer. Once you take a look at the differences, you can begin to see why things are the way they are, and you can better choose what is going to be right for you, the mountain bike rider.
This is especially true, I think, with the 29 inch wheeled bicycle because the geometries are still being experimented with, and up until recently, there were not a lot of choices available at your local bike shop. Custom builders have been inundated with requests to build 29"ers for these reasons and more.
In my view, there are really two different types of frame manufacture. One is production, where a designer comes up with a frame design to satisfy a certain criteria and has it manufactured in numbers of units for sale. Each unit in a particular size being identical to another. The other type is custom, where the design criteria is typically based upon an individual rider and his/her needs. Usually only one frame is produced that reflects this particular design criteria.
As you can see, this more personalized approach to building a frame is going to cost more than a "production frame" just based upon the economy of scale alone. I think most of us can agree on this. However; there is more going on than meets the eye, things like tubing spec, quality of joinery, and geometry that affect the quality of performance. Of course, this is true of any frame, it is just that these details are specifically tailored to the builders ideals and your personal riding style while being tailor made to your size. Things a "production frame", by necessity, has to compromise upon.
So, a custom frame costs more because it's "tailor made" for you, but it also will cost more for other reasons which usually include higher end materials, highly skilled labor, and more attention to details, especially in the finish work. Is a custom "worth it". Well, that is a highly loaded question that requires you to examine your expectations, your riding style, and well.......yourself!
I feel that I am a candidate for a custom based upon a few things. I have a good idea of what I expect out of a bike and what specific purpose I want to use a custom bike for. Secondly, I have a bit of a strange build to my body: long in the leg and shorter in the torso, so I often find that the compromises I must make to fit on a "production frame" are not acceptable all the time. Finally, I just really get weak in the knees for fillet brazing, and there just are not a lot of "production frames" sporting that type of joinery technique. Maybe you fall into one or more of these same reasonings for a custom frame, or maybe you don't. Custom frames are not for everybody and of course, the higher price is going to be a turn off for some based on money alone.
Tomorrow I want to take a closer look at "production frames" and why they may fit the needs of 29"er riders, or not.
Today I want to delve into the mystery of custom frames and perhaps show why they might be a choice for your bicycle frame, especially if it's a 29"er. One of the factors that seems to make a custom frame such a mystery to a lot of folks is the price charged for one. How is it that you can buy a complete bicycle, made of steel with 29 inch wheels for under $500.00 and almost all custom frames cost more than that? The gulf of price between the two is bridged by the value each offers the consumer. Once you take a look at the differences, you can begin to see why things are the way they are, and you can better choose what is going to be right for you, the mountain bike rider.
This is especially true, I think, with the 29 inch wheeled bicycle because the geometries are still being experimented with, and up until recently, there were not a lot of choices available at your local bike shop. Custom builders have been inundated with requests to build 29"ers for these reasons and more.
In my view, there are really two different types of frame manufacture. One is production, where a designer comes up with a frame design to satisfy a certain criteria and has it manufactured in numbers of units for sale. Each unit in a particular size being identical to another. The other type is custom, where the design criteria is typically based upon an individual rider and his/her needs. Usually only one frame is produced that reflects this particular design criteria.
As you can see, this more personalized approach to building a frame is going to cost more than a "production frame" just based upon the economy of scale alone. I think most of us can agree on this. However; there is more going on than meets the eye, things like tubing spec, quality of joinery, and geometry that affect the quality of performance. Of course, this is true of any frame, it is just that these details are specifically tailored to the builders ideals and your personal riding style while being tailor made to your size. Things a "production frame", by necessity, has to compromise upon.
So, a custom frame costs more because it's "tailor made" for you, but it also will cost more for other reasons which usually include higher end materials, highly skilled labor, and more attention to details, especially in the finish work. Is a custom "worth it". Well, that is a highly loaded question that requires you to examine your expectations, your riding style, and well.......yourself!
I feel that I am a candidate for a custom based upon a few things. I have a good idea of what I expect out of a bike and what specific purpose I want to use a custom bike for. Secondly, I have a bit of a strange build to my body: long in the leg and shorter in the torso, so I often find that the compromises I must make to fit on a "production frame" are not acceptable all the time. Finally, I just really get weak in the knees for fillet brazing, and there just are not a lot of "production frames" sporting that type of joinery technique. Maybe you fall into one or more of these same reasonings for a custom frame, or maybe you don't. Custom frames are not for everybody and of course, the higher price is going to be a turn off for some based on money alone.
Tomorrow I want to take a closer look at "production frames" and why they may fit the needs of 29"er riders, or not.
Monday, June 04, 2007
Frames: Custom, Stock, or Budget?
I have seen a lot of opinions on why one should or shouldn't buy a custom 29"er frame and fork lately. Some of the perceptions and viewpoints are so bizarre that I am prompted to write a few posts this week on the subject. I hope to be able to impart some clarity regarding what makes a custom frame "worth it", why a stock frame may be all right in some cases, and finally, what is going on with all of these "budget" frames and why they might not be what they are cracked up to be.
A little back round here is appropriate, just so you all know where I'm coming from. First of all, I have been mountain biking since 1989, (on a purpose built mountain bike. I've been off roading longer than that) and I have ridden many, many mountain bikes. Some were custom, some were stock production frames of varying qualities. I have been riding 29"ers since 2003 and I have ridden several different 29"ers extensively.
I have had these views on this subject for quite some time, but it was the dust up about the Twin Six Custom Stock on mtbr.com that prompted me to write this up.
The first "myth" I want to tackle is the perception that a great frame can be had for a little bit of money. The notion that you can buy a $250.00- $350.00 foreign made aluminum frame that is "as good as any race frame out there" is just misguided. Several things are at work here. There is the perception that workers get paid zilch, or next to it, in foreign countries to produce these frames. The thinking goes that because of this, the frames can be of a high quality without costing more. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In reality, their economic structure allows them to live quite well. I won't get into an economic based dissertation here, but these frames are just not made by "starving artists".
Then there is the misguided notion that the frames are somehow as good as the higher end frames that are production pieces, or as good as custom made frames. This is simply off the charts wrong! Think about it. If this were the case, then every race team trying to scratch out the most value for every sponsorship dollar would have their teams riding these pedestrian frame sets. Why wouldn't they? The reality is that the tubing spec, the geometry, the lack of weight, and the ride performance just isn't there. There is no comparison between what you can buy on e-bay for a frame set, and what someone like Salsa is doing with production frames and definitely no where near what folks like Siren Bicycles is doing. And this is just the aluminum side of things.
Interestingly, I noted that a certain well known American based bicycle company just recently has had a couple entry level mountain bikes produced in the Far East. That company said there was no way it would have it's higher end tubing spec welded in the Far East because the factories they talked to can't weld such thin walled aluminum tubing. Hmm.....if this company can not get it's high end aluminum frames made overseas, what do you suppose those $250.00-$350.00 aluminum frames are like from overseas? I'm guessing they are no where near as nice, especially in terms of weight, or lack there of. Of course, there are companies that can and do make super high quality frames in the Far East, but they are not cheap either.
Then there is the geometry, the ride quality, alignment, and other "invisible" features of a frame that you don't notice by just looking at a frame. I'll cover these things in tomorrows post.
A little back round here is appropriate, just so you all know where I'm coming from. First of all, I have been mountain biking since 1989, (on a purpose built mountain bike. I've been off roading longer than that) and I have ridden many, many mountain bikes. Some were custom, some were stock production frames of varying qualities. I have been riding 29"ers since 2003 and I have ridden several different 29"ers extensively.
I have had these views on this subject for quite some time, but it was the dust up about the Twin Six Custom Stock on mtbr.com that prompted me to write this up.
The first "myth" I want to tackle is the perception that a great frame can be had for a little bit of money. The notion that you can buy a $250.00- $350.00 foreign made aluminum frame that is "as good as any race frame out there" is just misguided. Several things are at work here. There is the perception that workers get paid zilch, or next to it, in foreign countries to produce these frames. The thinking goes that because of this, the frames can be of a high quality without costing more. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In reality, their economic structure allows them to live quite well. I won't get into an economic based dissertation here, but these frames are just not made by "starving artists".
Then there is the misguided notion that the frames are somehow as good as the higher end frames that are production pieces, or as good as custom made frames. This is simply off the charts wrong! Think about it. If this were the case, then every race team trying to scratch out the most value for every sponsorship dollar would have their teams riding these pedestrian frame sets. Why wouldn't they? The reality is that the tubing spec, the geometry, the lack of weight, and the ride performance just isn't there. There is no comparison between what you can buy on e-bay for a frame set, and what someone like Salsa is doing with production frames and definitely no where near what folks like Siren Bicycles is doing. And this is just the aluminum side of things.
Interestingly, I noted that a certain well known American based bicycle company just recently has had a couple entry level mountain bikes produced in the Far East. That company said there was no way it would have it's higher end tubing spec welded in the Far East because the factories they talked to can't weld such thin walled aluminum tubing. Hmm.....if this company can not get it's high end aluminum frames made overseas, what do you suppose those $250.00-$350.00 aluminum frames are like from overseas? I'm guessing they are no where near as nice, especially in terms of weight, or lack there of. Of course, there are companies that can and do make super high quality frames in the Far East, but they are not cheap either.
Then there is the geometry, the ride quality, alignment, and other "invisible" features of a frame that you don't notice by just looking at a frame. I'll cover these things in tomorrows post.
Frames: Custom, Stock, or Budget?
I have seen a lot of opinions on why one should or shouldn't buy a custom 29"er frame and fork lately. Some of the perceptions and viewpoints are so bizarre that I am prompted to write a few posts this week on the subject. I hope to be able to impart some clarity regarding what makes a custom frame "worth it", why a stock frame may be all right in some cases, and finally, what is going on with all of these "budget" frames and why they might not be what they are cracked up to be.
A little back round here is appropriate, just so you all know where I'm coming from. First of all, I have been mountain biking since 1989, (on a purpose built mountain bike. I've been off roading longer than that) and I have ridden many, many mountain bikes. Some were custom, some were stock production frames of varying qualities. I have been riding 29"ers since 2003 and I have ridden several different 29"ers extensively.
I have had these views on this subject for quite some time, but it was the dust up about the Twin Six Custom Stock on mtbr.com that prompted me to write this up.
The first "myth" I want to tackle is the perception that a great frame can be had for a little bit of money. The notion that you can buy a $250.00- $350.00 foreign made aluminum frame that is "as good as any race frame out there" is just misguided. Several things are at work here. There is the perception that workers get paid zilch, or next to it, in foreign countries to produce these frames. The thinking goes that because of this, the frames can be of a high quality without costing more. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In reality, their economic structure allows them to live quite well. I won't get into an economic based dissertation here, but these frames are just not made by "starving artists".
Then there is the misguided notion that the frames are somehow as good as the higher end frames that are production pieces, or as good as custom made frames. This is simply off the charts wrong! Think about it. If this were the case, then every race team trying to scratch out the most value for every sponsorship dollar would have their teams riding these pedestrian frame sets. Why wouldn't they? The reality is that the tubing spec, the geometry, the lack of weight, and the ride performance just isn't there. There is no comparison between what you can buy on e-bay for a frame set, and what someone like Salsa is doing with production frames and definitely no where near what folks like Siren Bicycles is doing. And this is just the aluminum side of things.
Interestingly, I noted that a certain well known American based bicycle company just recently has had a couple entry level mountain bikes produced in the Far East. That company said there was no way it would have it's higher end tubing spec welded in the Far East because the factories they talked to can't weld such thin walled aluminum tubing. Hmm.....if this company can not get it's high end aluminum frames made overseas, what do you suppose those $250.00-$350.00 aluminum frames are like from overseas? I'm guessing they are no where near as nice, especially in terms of weight, or lack there of. Of course, there are companies that can and do make super high quality frames in the Far East, but they are not cheap either.
Then there is the geometry, the ride quality, alignment, and other "invisible" features of a frame that you don't notice by just looking at a frame. I'll cover these things in tomorrows post.
A little back round here is appropriate, just so you all know where I'm coming from. First of all, I have been mountain biking since 1989, (on a purpose built mountain bike. I've been off roading longer than that) and I have ridden many, many mountain bikes. Some were custom, some were stock production frames of varying qualities. I have been riding 29"ers since 2003 and I have ridden several different 29"ers extensively.
I have had these views on this subject for quite some time, but it was the dust up about the Twin Six Custom Stock on mtbr.com that prompted me to write this up.
The first "myth" I want to tackle is the perception that a great frame can be had for a little bit of money. The notion that you can buy a $250.00- $350.00 foreign made aluminum frame that is "as good as any race frame out there" is just misguided. Several things are at work here. There is the perception that workers get paid zilch, or next to it, in foreign countries to produce these frames. The thinking goes that because of this, the frames can be of a high quality without costing more. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In reality, their economic structure allows them to live quite well. I won't get into an economic based dissertation here, but these frames are just not made by "starving artists".
Then there is the misguided notion that the frames are somehow as good as the higher end frames that are production pieces, or as good as custom made frames. This is simply off the charts wrong! Think about it. If this were the case, then every race team trying to scratch out the most value for every sponsorship dollar would have their teams riding these pedestrian frame sets. Why wouldn't they? The reality is that the tubing spec, the geometry, the lack of weight, and the ride performance just isn't there. There is no comparison between what you can buy on e-bay for a frame set, and what someone like Salsa is doing with production frames and definitely no where near what folks like Siren Bicycles is doing. And this is just the aluminum side of things.
Interestingly, I noted that a certain well known American based bicycle company just recently has had a couple entry level mountain bikes produced in the Far East. That company said there was no way it would have it's higher end tubing spec welded in the Far East because the factories they talked to can't weld such thin walled aluminum tubing. Hmm.....if this company can not get it's high end aluminum frames made overseas, what do you suppose those $250.00-$350.00 aluminum frames are like from overseas? I'm guessing they are no where near as nice, especially in terms of weight, or lack there of. Of course, there are companies that can and do make super high quality frames in the Far East, but they are not cheap either.
Then there is the geometry, the ride quality, alignment, and other "invisible" features of a frame that you don't notice by just looking at a frame. I'll cover these things in tomorrows post.
Sunday, June 03, 2007
Sunday Special Edition
I'm breaking my weekend silence here to post about a subject that I think bears looking into. That being the "Custom Vs. Stock" frame situation. The misconceptions and lack of proper information have prompted me to take this one on with a short series of posts this coming week.
Here are a few of the things I want to cover: What is a "custom" frame and why would you want one? How does a "cheap" frame get the job done and where does it fall short? How does "value" differ from the "price" paid for any frame? When does a production frame make sense?
These are some questions I want to bring some light to and hopefully we'll all learn something along the way.
Look for the first salvo coming across your bow tomorrow!
Here are a few of the things I want to cover: What is a "custom" frame and why would you want one? How does a "cheap" frame get the job done and where does it fall short? How does "value" differ from the "price" paid for any frame? When does a production frame make sense?
These are some questions I want to bring some light to and hopefully we'll all learn something along the way.
Look for the first salvo coming across your bow tomorrow!
Sunday Special Edition
I'm breaking my weekend silence here to post about a subject that I think bears looking into. That being the "Custom Vs. Stock" frame situation. The misconceptions and lack of proper information have prompted me to take this one on with a short series of posts this coming week.
Here are a few of the things I want to cover: What is a "custom" frame and why would you want one? How does a "cheap" frame get the job done and where does it fall short? How does "value" differ from the "price" paid for any frame? When does a production frame make sense?
These are some questions I want to bring some light to and hopefully we'll all learn something along the way.
Look for the first salvo coming across your bow tomorrow!
Here are a few of the things I want to cover: What is a "custom" frame and why would you want one? How does a "cheap" frame get the job done and where does it fall short? How does "value" differ from the "price" paid for any frame? When does a production frame make sense?
These are some questions I want to bring some light to and hopefully we'll all learn something along the way.
Look for the first salvo coming across your bow tomorrow!
Friday, June 01, 2007
New "Custom Stock" Twin Six 29"er
Well, Twin Six has done it again. This company continues to amaze me with it's out of the box thinking. Here is an apparel company, ( and a dang good one at that) that has done a messenger bag, which maybe isn't so weird, but definitely different. And now....a co-designed 29"er!
This is a project that I have known about for a long time now, but was sworn to secrecy about. (Whew! I'm glad I can quit holding my breath about this one now!) Anyway, I even got to check out a raw, unpainted frame back in February. I even was consulted with for the spec on the complete bike. How crazy is that? I am stoked to see the final outcome of this project, and I can tell you that it was undertaken for one reason only. That is, a passion for the bicycle. Brent and Ryan of Twin Six are fellow bike freaks and and this is what happens when you turn two of them loose on the cycling industry. The results are pretty stellar, if you ask me.
Twin Six teamed up with frame builder WaltWorks on this collaboration. Walt Wehner's frames have a solid reputation amongst 29"er freaks and for good reason. Walt is a no nonsense, purpose driven builder that churns out beautiful, tig welded goodness that just plain works. I've seen his bikes up close and they are really well executed. Owners rave about the way they ride. Twin Six waved their magic designer wand over the hand made steel frames and voila'! A totally rockin' 29"er was realized!
I must say, this WaltWorks is the best looking one to date. You could do a whole lot worse than this one folks, and it's a limited edition, super cool looking bike dripping with details to boot. Congrats to Ryan and Brent, Walt Wehner, George Wisell, ( who built the killer wheels for the project and is head cheese at Bike 29), and anybody else that had a hand in gettin' this project done. It's so cool to see how folks in the cycling industry can get along and what they can do if they put their minds and efforts together. Good on ya guys!
Now help these guys out and buy one!
Note: Twin Six is not responsible for the wayward actions and comments of this here feller. Pay no mind to him!
Have a great weekend and ride till yer stupid!
New "Custom Stock" Twin Six 29"er
Well, Twin Six has done it again. This company continues to amaze me with it's out of the box thinking. Here is an apparel company, ( and a dang good one at that) that has done a messenger bag, which maybe isn't so weird, but definitely different. And now....a co-designed 29"er!
This is a project that I have known about for a long time now, but was sworn to secrecy about. (Whew! I'm glad I can quit holding my breath about this one now!) Anyway, I even got to check out a raw, unpainted frame back in February. I even was consulted with for the spec on the complete bike. How crazy is that? I am stoked to see the final outcome of this project, and I can tell you that it was undertaken for one reason only. That is, a passion for the bicycle. Brent and Ryan of Twin Six are fellow bike freaks and and this is what happens when you turn two of them loose on the cycling industry. The results are pretty stellar, if you ask me.
Twin Six teamed up with frame builder WaltWorks on this collaboration. Walt Wehner's frames have a solid reputation amongst 29"er freaks and for good reason. Walt is a no nonsense, purpose driven builder that churns out beautiful, tig welded goodness that just plain works. I've seen his bikes up close and they are really well executed. Owners rave about the way they ride. Twin Six waved their magic designer wand over the hand made steel frames and voila'! A totally rockin' 29"er was realized!
I must say, this WaltWorks is the best looking one to date. You could do a whole lot worse than this one folks, and it's a limited edition, super cool looking bike dripping with details to boot. Congrats to Ryan and Brent, Walt Wehner, George Wisell, ( who built the killer wheels for the project and is head cheese at Bike 29), and anybody else that had a hand in gettin' this project done. It's so cool to see how folks in the cycling industry can get along and what they can do if they put their minds and efforts together. Good on ya guys!
Now help these guys out and buy one!
Note: Twin Six is not responsible for the wayward actions and comments of this here feller. Pay no mind to him!
Have a great weekend and ride till yer stupid!
Thursday, May 31, 2007
Breaking Stuff
I think I forgot to mention that in my crash Monday I also broke my SRAM shifter. Broke the upper lever on the right shifter clean off at the pod. That in addition to my helmet made for a pretty expensive ride.
It's part of the mountain biking experience though. If you ride hard for very long you will be experiencing the broken part blues. Hopefully it's not something that causes you to crash that breaks, but something that breaks because of a crash. Either way, it can get kind of pricey these days to have things break.
My SRAM shifter pod won't cost an arm and a leg, but it isn't going to come for free either! Some other bits I've seen broken in crashes lately include hydraulic brake lines, hydro master cylinders, brake levers, and wheels tweaked beyond repair. I've broken brake calipers, handle bars, and even a suspension linkage before on mountain bikes. All stuff that costs money, and sometimes lots of it.
Even "minor things" like tires, saddles, and grips add up and are constant casualties of trail abuse. Tubes for tires are another thing that can add up in the long run. I suppose mountain biking is not for the weak of heart or wallet!
Thankfully I am a decent enough rider that I don't biff all the time. The parts are also fairly robust these days too. It used to be that you could brake something by looking wrong at it, seemingly. That was back in the 90's CNC craze. I don't miss those parts at all. Especially that $250.00 CNC American made derailluer I grenaded....................twice! At least you can almost always fix the bike. The rider? Well..........this one's never been right!
Here's to breaking stuff and living to tell the tale!
It's part of the mountain biking experience though. If you ride hard for very long you will be experiencing the broken part blues. Hopefully it's not something that causes you to crash that breaks, but something that breaks because of a crash. Either way, it can get kind of pricey these days to have things break.
My SRAM shifter pod won't cost an arm and a leg, but it isn't going to come for free either! Some other bits I've seen broken in crashes lately include hydraulic brake lines, hydro master cylinders, brake levers, and wheels tweaked beyond repair. I've broken brake calipers, handle bars, and even a suspension linkage before on mountain bikes. All stuff that costs money, and sometimes lots of it.
Even "minor things" like tires, saddles, and grips add up and are constant casualties of trail abuse. Tubes for tires are another thing that can add up in the long run. I suppose mountain biking is not for the weak of heart or wallet!
Thankfully I am a decent enough rider that I don't biff all the time. The parts are also fairly robust these days too. It used to be that you could brake something by looking wrong at it, seemingly. That was back in the 90's CNC craze. I don't miss those parts at all. Especially that $250.00 CNC American made derailluer I grenaded....................twice! At least you can almost always fix the bike. The rider? Well..........this one's never been right!
Here's to breaking stuff and living to tell the tale!
Breaking Stuff
I think I forgot to mention that in my crash Monday I also broke my SRAM shifter. Broke the upper lever on the right shifter clean off at the pod. That in addition to my helmet made for a pretty expensive ride.
It's part of the mountain biking experience though. If you ride hard for very long you will be experiencing the broken part blues. Hopefully it's not something that causes you to crash that breaks, but something that breaks because of a crash. Either way, it can get kind of pricey these days to have things break.
My SRAM shifter pod won't cost an arm and a leg, but it isn't going to come for free either! Some other bits I've seen broken in crashes lately include hydraulic brake lines, hydro master cylinders, brake levers, and wheels tweaked beyond repair. I've broken brake calipers, handle bars, and even a suspension linkage before on mountain bikes. All stuff that costs money, and sometimes lots of it.
Even "minor things" like tires, saddles, and grips add up and are constant casualties of trail abuse. Tubes for tires are another thing that can add up in the long run. I suppose mountain biking is not for the weak of heart or wallet!
Thankfully I am a decent enough rider that I don't biff all the time. The parts are also fairly robust these days too. It used to be that you could brake something by looking wrong at it, seemingly. That was back in the 90's CNC craze. I don't miss those parts at all. Especially that $250.00 CNC American made derailluer I grenaded....................twice! At least you can almost always fix the bike. The rider? Well..........this one's never been right!
Here's to breaking stuff and living to tell the tale!
It's part of the mountain biking experience though. If you ride hard for very long you will be experiencing the broken part blues. Hopefully it's not something that causes you to crash that breaks, but something that breaks because of a crash. Either way, it can get kind of pricey these days to have things break.
My SRAM shifter pod won't cost an arm and a leg, but it isn't going to come for free either! Some other bits I've seen broken in crashes lately include hydraulic brake lines, hydro master cylinders, brake levers, and wheels tweaked beyond repair. I've broken brake calipers, handle bars, and even a suspension linkage before on mountain bikes. All stuff that costs money, and sometimes lots of it.
Even "minor things" like tires, saddles, and grips add up and are constant casualties of trail abuse. Tubes for tires are another thing that can add up in the long run. I suppose mountain biking is not for the weak of heart or wallet!
Thankfully I am a decent enough rider that I don't biff all the time. The parts are also fairly robust these days too. It used to be that you could brake something by looking wrong at it, seemingly. That was back in the 90's CNC craze. I don't miss those parts at all. Especially that $250.00 CNC American made derailluer I grenaded....................twice! At least you can almost always fix the bike. The rider? Well..........this one's never been right!
Here's to breaking stuff and living to tell the tale!
Wednesday, May 30, 2007
Wednesday News And Views
Sun Ringle' Introduces A New Wheelset: In news that's sure to be an indication of where the 29"er market is heading, Sun Ringle' has a new 29"er wheelset on offer for All Mountain use. Called the "High Rider 29er", the wheels feature a wide rim. This rim looks to be wider than anything currently available, sans the excellent Kris Holm unicycle rims. The exact specs are not available, but judging from the published weight of 2400 plus grams for the set, I'd say it's got to be a pretty wide, beefy rim. This wheelset joins the currently available Disco Flea XC wheelset for 29"ers that's a sub 1800 gram set. More as I can track it down.
Mr 24 Gets More Pub!: For those of you in the bicycle industry that get Bicycle Retailer and Industry News, you can check out the newest Ergon ad that features the most excellent "BD" series of backpacks made for cycling. If you check out the strip of athlete pictures that runs through the ad you will see three shots of Mr. 24 in his full Ergon Team kit. A couple of the shots I recognize as being taken at Sea Otter. Anyway, the ad is sure to be run in conventional cycling publications soon, so be on the look out for it. See if you can find Mr. 24! (By the way, congrats on the win at the 12 Hours of Branched Oak recently)
GTDRI Updates: You know it, you love it! The Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational, or GTDRI for short, is starting to come together slowly. I'll have updates every so often at the site now, so check it out if you are at all interested in a low key, underground type ride over silly amounts of gravel goodness. How much is silly, you ask? Well, we're looking at something in the 120 plus mile range right now, but the course is still in flux, so don't hold me to it. The idea here is to challenge ourselves to a chunk-o-mileage on the gravel in a days time and to have a good time during and afterwards. Check out the site for more details and updates on what exactly this is. Hopefully I'll have a new steed to ride it with by then!
That's it for today. Ride your bike to work! Ride it everywhere!
Mr 24 Gets More Pub!: For those of you in the bicycle industry that get Bicycle Retailer and Industry News, you can check out the newest Ergon ad that features the most excellent "BD" series of backpacks made for cycling. If you check out the strip of athlete pictures that runs through the ad you will see three shots of Mr. 24 in his full Ergon Team kit. A couple of the shots I recognize as being taken at Sea Otter. Anyway, the ad is sure to be run in conventional cycling publications soon, so be on the look out for it. See if you can find Mr. 24! (By the way, congrats on the win at the 12 Hours of Branched Oak recently)
GTDRI Updates: You know it, you love it! The Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational, or GTDRI for short, is starting to come together slowly. I'll have updates every so often at the site now, so check it out if you are at all interested in a low key, underground type ride over silly amounts of gravel goodness. How much is silly, you ask? Well, we're looking at something in the 120 plus mile range right now, but the course is still in flux, so don't hold me to it. The idea here is to challenge ourselves to a chunk-o-mileage on the gravel in a days time and to have a good time during and afterwards. Check out the site for more details and updates on what exactly this is. Hopefully I'll have a new steed to ride it with by then!
That's it for today. Ride your bike to work! Ride it everywhere!
Wednesday News And Views
Sun Ringle' Introduces A New Wheelset: In news that's sure to be an indication of where the 29"er market is heading, Sun Ringle' has a new 29"er wheelset on offer for All Mountain use. Called the "High Rider 29er", the wheels feature a wide rim. This rim looks to be wider than anything currently available, sans the excellent Kris Holm unicycle rims. The exact specs are not available, but judging from the published weight of 2400 plus grams for the set, I'd say it's got to be a pretty wide, beefy rim. This wheelset joins the currently available Disco Flea XC wheelset for 29"ers that's a sub 1800 gram set. More as I can track it down.
Mr 24 Gets More Pub!: For those of you in the bicycle industry that get Bicycle Retailer and Industry News, you can check out the newest Ergon ad that features the most excellent "BD" series of backpacks made for cycling. If you check out the strip of athlete pictures that runs through the ad you will see three shots of Mr. 24 in his full Ergon Team kit. A couple of the shots I recognize as being taken at Sea Otter. Anyway, the ad is sure to be run in conventional cycling publications soon, so be on the look out for it. See if you can find Mr. 24! (By the way, congrats on the win at the 12 Hours of Branched Oak recently)
GTDRI Updates: You know it, you love it! The Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational, or GTDRI for short, is starting to come together slowly. I'll have updates every so often at the site now, so check it out if you are at all interested in a low key, underground type ride over silly amounts of gravel goodness. How much is silly, you ask? Well, we're looking at something in the 120 plus mile range right now, but the course is still in flux, so don't hold me to it. The idea here is to challenge ourselves to a chunk-o-mileage on the gravel in a days time and to have a good time during and afterwards. Check out the site for more details and updates on what exactly this is. Hopefully I'll have a new steed to ride it with by then!
That's it for today. Ride your bike to work! Ride it everywhere!
Mr 24 Gets More Pub!: For those of you in the bicycle industry that get Bicycle Retailer and Industry News, you can check out the newest Ergon ad that features the most excellent "BD" series of backpacks made for cycling. If you check out the strip of athlete pictures that runs through the ad you will see three shots of Mr. 24 in his full Ergon Team kit. A couple of the shots I recognize as being taken at Sea Otter. Anyway, the ad is sure to be run in conventional cycling publications soon, so be on the look out for it. See if you can find Mr. 24! (By the way, congrats on the win at the 12 Hours of Branched Oak recently)
GTDRI Updates: You know it, you love it! The Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational, or GTDRI for short, is starting to come together slowly. I'll have updates every so often at the site now, so check it out if you are at all interested in a low key, underground type ride over silly amounts of gravel goodness. How much is silly, you ask? Well, we're looking at something in the 120 plus mile range right now, but the course is still in flux, so don't hold me to it. The idea here is to challenge ourselves to a chunk-o-mileage on the gravel in a days time and to have a good time during and afterwards. Check out the site for more details and updates on what exactly this is. Hopefully I'll have a new steed to ride it with by then!
That's it for today. Ride your bike to work! Ride it everywhere!
Tuesday, May 29, 2007
How A "Little Ride" Turned Epic
After the Leb ride I decided a nice spin through the State Park and up the fire road to Washington Access via Black Hawk Park was in order. A nice quiet flat ride. Yeah right!
First and most alarming was my endo in Geo Wyth State Park. A simple log crossing had me turned into a lawn dart. Really.......we're talking full on crash with all my weight on the head! I heard several popping and crunching noises from my neck. Scary! The good news was that I was all right. Other than a helmet full of mud, I was able to continue, although I'll be shopping for a new lid today! After gathering my self up and dusting off, I went along my way, none the worse for wear. I tell you, it was a miracle I wasn't injured!
The first picture above shows what I found once I hit the fire road just out of Black Hawk Park. That water was cold and hub deep! At least it was over a gravel bottom and not mucky river silt.
The next water crossing wasn't so nice though. I found it just after the Ford Road cut off. It looked as though an intrepid bicyclist had tried riding through the muck and water, but I opted to back track slightly to the Ford Road cut off and try it instead.
This is what I found. While the fire road was getting pretty overgrown and had a few blow downs, this cut off was completely unrideable due to weeds, downed trees, and overgrowth. Here you can see my handle bar height view. Any higher and I wouldn't have made it through because of the vegetation. Oh, and did I mention the 100 yards or so of nettles that I had to walk through? Yeeeooow! That stuff itches for a bit, but leave your hands off your legs, and the sensations subside, but oh! It's tough to endure it! By the time I walked out of there I had overcome it, so I was able to put that behind me.
Once out on Ford Road I enjoyed gravel road goodness and 25 to 30mph winds! I traversed over to just north of Waterloo on Mount Vernon Road and then straight into the teeth of the wind on Burton back into town. Even with the buildings all around me, the wind was still a force to be reckoned with. I guess Mr. 24 is right. The wind is our mountain!
Once into town I came upon this forced work stoppage. I suppose it was a much needed rest stop after grinding against that wind. Once the behemoth had passed I went on home with no further drama. It was a four and a half hour epic that was supposed to be a nice little recovery spin! Uh huh, whatever!
I'm not going to complain about it, and I don't mean it to sound as if I am. The way I figure it, I'm blessed to still be walking!
Much less ride a bicycle!
How A "Little Ride" Turned Epic
After the Leb ride I decided a nice spin through the State Park and up the fire road to Washington Access via Black Hawk Park was in order. A nice quiet flat ride. Yeah right!
First and most alarming was my endo in Geo Wyth State Park. A simple log crossing had me turned into a lawn dart. Really.......we're talking full on crash with all my weight on the head! I heard several popping and crunching noises from my neck. Scary! The good news was that I was all right. Other than a helmet full of mud, I was able to continue, although I'll be shopping for a new lid today! After gathering my self up and dusting off, I went along my way, none the worse for wear. I tell you, it was a miracle I wasn't injured!
The first picture above shows what I found once I hit the fire road just out of Black Hawk Park. That water was cold and hub deep! At least it was over a gravel bottom and not mucky river silt.
The next water crossing wasn't so nice though. I found it just after the Ford Road cut off. It looked as though an intrepid bicyclist had tried riding through the muck and water, but I opted to back track slightly to the Ford Road cut off and try it instead.
This is what I found. While the fire road was getting pretty overgrown and had a few blow downs, this cut off was completely unrideable due to weeds, downed trees, and overgrowth. Here you can see my handle bar height view. Any higher and I wouldn't have made it through because of the vegetation. Oh, and did I mention the 100 yards or so of nettles that I had to walk through? Yeeeooow! That stuff itches for a bit, but leave your hands off your legs, and the sensations subside, but oh! It's tough to endure it! By the time I walked out of there I had overcome it, so I was able to put that behind me.
Once out on Ford Road I enjoyed gravel road goodness and 25 to 30mph winds! I traversed over to just north of Waterloo on Mount Vernon Road and then straight into the teeth of the wind on Burton back into town. Even with the buildings all around me, the wind was still a force to be reckoned with. I guess Mr. 24 is right. The wind is our mountain!
Once into town I came upon this forced work stoppage. I suppose it was a much needed rest stop after grinding against that wind. Once the behemoth had passed I went on home with no further drama. It was a four and a half hour epic that was supposed to be a nice little recovery spin! Uh huh, whatever!
I'm not going to complain about it, and I don't mean it to sound as if I am. The way I figure it, I'm blessed to still be walking!
Much less ride a bicycle!
Sunday, May 27, 2007
Ride Report: Lebanon Hills
"The Leb" or just plain ol' "Leb", as the locals call it. These are the trails I got to enjoy this weekend up in Apple Valley, Minnesota. (Or as most people 'round here say, "The Twin Cities", referring to the two major cities that make up the urban complex: Minneapolis and St. Paul)
I will back up here and start at the beginning. It's been since,....oh I don't know.........forever, that Brent of Twin Six and Jason of Salsa Cycles have been telling me that I hafta ride Leb! They have been wanting me to come up and finally it all worked out for this weekend to bring up my wife and make a run at it with Jason. Just a quick hitter and back home again, but what a great time! (Eternally thankful to Jason, his very gracious wife, and family!)
All righty then! These are some excellent trails. I have had the fortune of riding some very technical, beautiful, and widely diverse trails so far this year. How could it get any better? Well, Lebanon Hills did up the bar even more, to my amazement and enjoyment.
These trails are very well groomed, but that doesn't mean they are not tough. In fact, they have some really cool things going on there. Log piles are common anywhere you go, but at Leb they have taken it to a new level. About five foot high to be exact! And a couple close to that to boot. You like rocks? How about glaciated erratics that are showing there bald heads just above the dirt? They were anywhere from baby head sized to huge pick up box filling boulders that always appeared right around a blind corner or during a steep climb. Rounded from glacial activity, these rocks would send you off in unintended directions or make your tires pop into slots between rocks if you didn't pick a precise line.
Then there were piney sections full of needles, smooth single track, swoopy downhills, water barred climbs, and plenty of tight turns. It even has lumber skinnies, camel backs, and a teeter totter! We did two laps of it and I was really tired, but having a blast!
Now I did get off and walk a few obstacles, but I'd never been there and I am conservative when it comes to taking risks on new trails. The good news is that I had only one sketchy get off and no crashes. Very little walking too, (only around the obstacles I didn't feel comfortable with) so I feel good about my progress fitness-wise. I still have a long way to go though.
Enough about me! I took the Salsa Dos Niner and it performed very nicely there. As well it should, since Salsa is located near by. Maybe it gets better mojo from being closer to the power source or something! Whatever it is, the bike just plain worked well over the smaller log piles, drops, rocks, and bermed turns. My body was well taken care of by the Relish damper and Reba up front. (Good thing I listened to Brent! He told me to bring this bike. Thanks Buddy!)
Lebanon Hills is located on the northern border of Apple Valley and straddles over towards Eagan. It's not far from the Minnesota Zoo. Check it out if you have the chance, it won't disappoint.
No, I didn't take any pictures! I had two hands full of handlebar and a stupid grin on my face, so sue me! I may have a chance to ride it again in two weeks, so I may get some pics then.
I will back up here and start at the beginning. It's been since,....oh I don't know.........forever, that Brent of Twin Six and Jason of Salsa Cycles have been telling me that I hafta ride Leb! They have been wanting me to come up and finally it all worked out for this weekend to bring up my wife and make a run at it with Jason. Just a quick hitter and back home again, but what a great time! (Eternally thankful to Jason, his very gracious wife, and family!)
All righty then! These are some excellent trails. I have had the fortune of riding some very technical, beautiful, and widely diverse trails so far this year. How could it get any better? Well, Lebanon Hills did up the bar even more, to my amazement and enjoyment.
These trails are very well groomed, but that doesn't mean they are not tough. In fact, they have some really cool things going on there. Log piles are common anywhere you go, but at Leb they have taken it to a new level. About five foot high to be exact! And a couple close to that to boot. You like rocks? How about glaciated erratics that are showing there bald heads just above the dirt? They were anywhere from baby head sized to huge pick up box filling boulders that always appeared right around a blind corner or during a steep climb. Rounded from glacial activity, these rocks would send you off in unintended directions or make your tires pop into slots between rocks if you didn't pick a precise line.
Then there were piney sections full of needles, smooth single track, swoopy downhills, water barred climbs, and plenty of tight turns. It even has lumber skinnies, camel backs, and a teeter totter! We did two laps of it and I was really tired, but having a blast!
Now I did get off and walk a few obstacles, but I'd never been there and I am conservative when it comes to taking risks on new trails. The good news is that I had only one sketchy get off and no crashes. Very little walking too, (only around the obstacles I didn't feel comfortable with) so I feel good about my progress fitness-wise. I still have a long way to go though.
Enough about me! I took the Salsa Dos Niner and it performed very nicely there. As well it should, since Salsa is located near by. Maybe it gets better mojo from being closer to the power source or something! Whatever it is, the bike just plain worked well over the smaller log piles, drops, rocks, and bermed turns. My body was well taken care of by the Relish damper and Reba up front. (Good thing I listened to Brent! He told me to bring this bike. Thanks Buddy!)
Lebanon Hills is located on the northern border of Apple Valley and straddles over towards Eagan. It's not far from the Minnesota Zoo. Check it out if you have the chance, it won't disappoint.
No, I didn't take any pictures! I had two hands full of handlebar and a stupid grin on my face, so sue me! I may have a chance to ride it again in two weeks, so I may get some pics then.
Ride Report: Lebanon Hills
"The Leb" or just plain ol' "Leb", as the locals call it. These are the trails I got to enjoy this weekend up in Apple Valley, Minnesota. (Or as most people 'round here say, "The Twin Cities", referring to the two major cities that make up the urban complex: Minneapolis and St. Paul)
I will back up here and start at the beginning. It's been since,....oh I don't know.........forever, that Brent of Twin Six and Jason of Salsa Cycles have been telling me that I hafta ride Leb! They have been wanting me to come up and finally it all worked out for this weekend to bring up my wife and make a run at it with Jason. Just a quick hitter and back home again, but what a great time! (Eternally thankful to Jason, his very gracious wife, and family!)
All righty then! These are some excellent trails. I have had the fortune of riding some very technical, beautiful, and widely diverse trails so far this year. How could it get any better? Well, Lebanon Hills did up the bar even more, to my amazement and enjoyment.
These trails are very well groomed, but that doesn't mean they are not tough. In fact, they have some really cool things going on there. Log piles are common anywhere you go, but at Leb they have taken it to a new level. About five foot high to be exact! And a couple close to that to boot. You like rocks? How about glaciated erratics that are showing there bald heads just above the dirt? They were anywhere from baby head sized to huge pick up box filling boulders that always appeared right around a blind corner or during a steep climb. Rounded from glacial activity, these rocks would send you off in unintended directions or make your tires pop into slots between rocks if you didn't pick a precise line.
Then there were piney sections full of needles, smooth single track, swoopy downhills, water barred climbs, and plenty of tight turns. It even has lumber skinnies, camel backs, and a teeter totter! We did two laps of it and I was really tired, but having a blast!
Now I did get off and walk a few obstacles, but I'd never been there and I am conservative when it comes to taking risks on new trails. The good news is that I had only one sketchy get off and no crashes. Very little walking too, (only around the obstacles I didn't feel comfortable with) so I feel good about my progress fitness-wise. I still have a long way to go though.
Enough about me! I took the Salsa Dos Niner and it performed very nicely there. As well it should, since Salsa is located near by. Maybe it gets better mojo from being closer to the power source or something! Whatever it is, the bike just plain worked well over the smaller log piles, drops, rocks, and bermed turns. My body was well taken care of by the Relish damper and Reba up front. (Good thing I listened to Brent! He told me to bring this bike. Thanks Buddy!)
Lebanon Hills is located on the northern border of Apple Valley and straddles over towards Eagan. It's not far from the Minnesota Zoo. Check it out if you have the chance, it won't disappoint.
No, I didn't take any pictures! I had two hands full of handlebar and a stupid grin on my face, so sue me! I may have a chance to ride it again in two weeks, so I may get some pics then.
I will back up here and start at the beginning. It's been since,....oh I don't know.........forever, that Brent of Twin Six and Jason of Salsa Cycles have been telling me that I hafta ride Leb! They have been wanting me to come up and finally it all worked out for this weekend to bring up my wife and make a run at it with Jason. Just a quick hitter and back home again, but what a great time! (Eternally thankful to Jason, his very gracious wife, and family!)
All righty then! These are some excellent trails. I have had the fortune of riding some very technical, beautiful, and widely diverse trails so far this year. How could it get any better? Well, Lebanon Hills did up the bar even more, to my amazement and enjoyment.
These trails are very well groomed, but that doesn't mean they are not tough. In fact, they have some really cool things going on there. Log piles are common anywhere you go, but at Leb they have taken it to a new level. About five foot high to be exact! And a couple close to that to boot. You like rocks? How about glaciated erratics that are showing there bald heads just above the dirt? They were anywhere from baby head sized to huge pick up box filling boulders that always appeared right around a blind corner or during a steep climb. Rounded from glacial activity, these rocks would send you off in unintended directions or make your tires pop into slots between rocks if you didn't pick a precise line.
Then there were piney sections full of needles, smooth single track, swoopy downhills, water barred climbs, and plenty of tight turns. It even has lumber skinnies, camel backs, and a teeter totter! We did two laps of it and I was really tired, but having a blast!
Now I did get off and walk a few obstacles, but I'd never been there and I am conservative when it comes to taking risks on new trails. The good news is that I had only one sketchy get off and no crashes. Very little walking too, (only around the obstacles I didn't feel comfortable with) so I feel good about my progress fitness-wise. I still have a long way to go though.
Enough about me! I took the Salsa Dos Niner and it performed very nicely there. As well it should, since Salsa is located near by. Maybe it gets better mojo from being closer to the power source or something! Whatever it is, the bike just plain worked well over the smaller log piles, drops, rocks, and bermed turns. My body was well taken care of by the Relish damper and Reba up front. (Good thing I listened to Brent! He told me to bring this bike. Thanks Buddy!)
Lebanon Hills is located on the northern border of Apple Valley and straddles over towards Eagan. It's not far from the Minnesota Zoo. Check it out if you have the chance, it won't disappoint.
No, I didn't take any pictures! I had two hands full of handlebar and a stupid grin on my face, so sue me! I may have a chance to ride it again in two weeks, so I may get some pics then.
Friday, May 25, 2007
Project Badger Update
Heading into Memorial Day Weekend, I leave you with these pics of the brazing up of the Badger frame I am having built.
Rear dropout being attached to the chainstay.
Fire! heh heh!..........ummmm....yeah! Fire! Fire!
The Head Badgermaster Rob Pennell doing his magic on the head tube.
Rob lays down some of the prettiest, symetrical fillets I have ever seen.
She's outta the jig!
Note the extended head tube length for drop bar usage.
Ready for final braze on work. After that the joints will all be smoothed and inspected. Then she's off to be painted.
I'll be out of town most of the weekend enjoying some dirt riding in the Minneapolis area. I'll have a ride report on Monday.
Enjoy the holiday weekend! Be safe and ride your bikes!
Project Badger Update
Heading into Memorial Day Weekend, I leave you with these pics of the brazing up of the Badger frame I am having built.
Rear dropout being attached to the chainstay.
Fire! heh heh!..........ummmm....yeah! Fire! Fire!
The Head Badgermaster Rob Pennell doing his magic on the head tube.
Rob lays down some of the prettiest, symetrical fillets I have ever seen.
She's outta the jig!
Note the extended head tube length for drop bar usage.
Ready for final braze on work. After that the joints will all be smoothed and inspected. Then she's off to be painted.
I'll be out of town most of the weekend enjoying some dirt riding in the Minneapolis area. I'll have a ride report on Monday.
Enjoy the holiday weekend! Be safe and ride your bikes!
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