The Monkey Decade: Close- Very Close

There are some details to work through, but this is close to done.

Many of you regular readers are familiar with my 2003 Karate Monkey and the old thread I did on this bike starting back in 2013 which I dubbed "The Monkey Decade". That kind of drug on, and on, and on due to a stuck bottom bracket which I finally, with the help of the shop mates I have, got unstuck this past Spring.

Since then I have been, on occasion, fiddling with the fit by changing out some parts here and there. All the while trying to recreate the feel I had with this bike when I last had it dialed in back in 2007-2008. Have you ever had a bicycle you had so tweaked out that you could call it "nearly perfect"? This Karate Monkey was that bicycle for me. Then I went and started changing up stuff.

I was an idiot.

Well, of course, things changed with parts and what not until I got to a place where I just figured this bicycle would never be "that bicycle" again. Besides, I had other bicycles based off the old set up which were arguably better in some facets that mattered. Well......to me they mattered. Then I saw that Velo Orange Cigne stem and that gave me some hope that this part might get me close to "that bicycle" once again. And you know what?

I think it has done just that.

The Cigne Stem puts the drop bars right where they always should have been on this bike.

Now I have hope that with a few other key changes in componentry, I not only will have "that bicycle" back again, but that it will actually surpass that set up of old to reach a new level. The stem is the key. It puts those drops right in the pocket. I like the height of the drop section and the reach is dead on. That never quite was the case with the old Monkey set up with Midge Bars and a rise stem.

These drop bars are like the Velo Orange Dajia Far Bars but are actually Gary Ergo Sweep OS Bars from Origin 8. They are interchangeable as far as design, being the same thing. Anyway, I will reserve judgement until I get some longer rides in. So far they seem a lot like what their Origin 8 name implies, an ergo bend road bar in the drops, which I am not a huge fan of, but they are okay.

Like I say, there will be changes. A 180mm crank set with a bigger ring, a different cog on the back wheel, and the red will give way to green. But this is close to being done.

Very close!

The Monkey Decade: Close- Very Close

There are some details to work through, but this is close to done.

Many of you regular readers are familiar with my 2003 Karate Monkey and the old thread I did on this bike starting back in 2013 which I dubbed "The Monkey Decade". That kind of drug on, and on, and on due to a stuck bottom bracket which I finally, with the help of the shop mates I have, got unstuck this past Spring.

Since then I have been, on occasion, fiddling with the fit by changing out some parts here and there. All the while trying to recreate the feel I had with this bike when I last had it dialed in back in 2007-2008. Have you ever had a bicycle you had so tweaked out that you could call it "nearly perfect"? This Karate Monkey was that bicycle for me. Then I went and started changing up stuff.

I was an idiot.

Well, of course, things changed with parts and what not until I got to a place where I just figured this bicycle would never be "that bicycle" again. Besides, I had other bicycles based off the old set up which were arguably better in some facets that mattered. Well......to me they mattered. Then I saw that Velo Orange Cigne stem and that gave me some hope that this part might get me close to "that bicycle" once again. And you know what?

I think it has done just that.

The Cigne Stem puts the drop bars right where they always should have been on this bike.

Now I have hope that with a few other key changes in componentry, I not only will have "that bicycle" back again, but that it will actually surpass that set up of old to reach a new level. The stem is the key. It puts those drops right in the pocket. I like the height of the drop section and the reach is dead on. That never quite was the case with the old Monkey set up with Midge Bars and a rise stem.

These drop bars are like the Velo Orange Dajia Far Bars but are actually Gary Ergo Sweep OS Bars from Origin 8. They are interchangeable as far as design, being the same thing. Anyway, I will reserve judgement until I get some longer rides in. So far they seem a lot like what their Origin 8 name implies, an ergo bend road bar in the drops, which I am not a huge fan of, but they are okay.

Like I say, there will be changes. A 180mm crank set with a bigger ring, a different cog on the back wheel, and the red will give way to green. But this is close to being done.

Very close!

Velo Orange Cigne Stem Overview

The Velo Orange "Cigne" stem is an "LD" type stem for drop bar mtb's

Background: In the weird world of off road drop bars, one of the main issues is getting the drops up in the air high enough that the drop position becomes your primary hand position. Let's face it, there are not many hard tail mountain bikes that were ever designed around such an idea, so typically you will find yourself retrofitting drops to a flat bar hard tail mtb. When you try to do this, you will find yourself fighting against two big hurdles that are hard to clear.

The first of these two hurdles is that the reach, or in old mountain biker's parlance, the effective top tube length, is going to be a bit too long for a drop bar. Why? because unlike flat bars, a drop bar adds to the overall reach of the cockpit. The "reach" of the drops adds to the effective top tube length, so stem length is critical to a successful drop bar conversion on an old mountain bike. The stem reach needs to be very short, typically.

The second hurdle is that the head tube lengths on most mountain bikes are relatively short compared to those bikes designed for drop bars. Why? Because drop bars have depth while flat bars are on a single plane. To make the drop section useful in almost every case, you need a stem with a steep rise. Those are typically very hard to find in short reach dimensions. It's either that or you get a frame designed around drop bars which will typically have a longer head tube to alleviate that issue. See the Salsa Fargo and El Mariachi models for a perfect example of what I mean here.

Back in the 1980's, builders of mountain bikes used a stem design that was most often associated with Potts, Ibis, and Cunningham bikes to get around the two hurdles I mention above. Known as the "LD" type stem by many, it is a simple and elegant way to get around the longer top tubes and shorter head tubes of mountain bikes when drop bars are desired. The trouble was that these custom builders either became something else, died out, or stopped producing these types of stems over the ensuing years till now. The only way to get such a stem was to contract a custom builder that was amenable to the idea of making stems to make you one, which is obviously very expensive. So, most riders just "make do" with whatever stems they can get.

My Karate Monkey with a Dimension riser stem in the shortest reach and highest rise available. 

Above you can see what I mean about "making do". This is my '03 Karate Monkey with a Origin 8 "Gary Ergo Sweep OS Bar" (Velo Orange has the identical bar as the Daija Far Bar) and I am using the Dimension stem in the highest rise and shortest reach possible. Without adding a stack-o-spacers on a longer steer tube, (which is impossible since I cut that fork in '03), this is the best possible set up I could get. Well, other than a custom stem. Anyway, the drop section is a bit too low for my liking, and as you can see, the tops are about at the same level as the saddle. I also wasn't keen on the reach, which was a bit too long for my tastes.

A quick mock up using the Cigne stem. Now that is a big difference!

Above here you can see my quick mock up using the Velo Orange Grand Cru Cigne Stem. Sheesh folks! Do we really need such long names?!! Maybe we could have called it the "Tom" stem, or the "Nancy" stem and made it simpler. Anyway......

Fancy pants long name aside, this stem radicalizes my set up. Check out the reach, which is 70mm for the stem. You can get an 80mm reach Cigne stem too, but I went for the shortest option here. Obviously, the height is there as well. Check out how much higher the drop section is. Totally usable now as opposed to marginally usable before.

You can check out all the technical mumbo-jumbo here if you want to, but the bottom line is that now one can get a tested, well designed, good looking stem for converting a mtb to drop bar use. This stem will make many more set ups far more versatile and workable than before at a reasonable cost. You could also probably use this stem to raise a road bike's handle bar to more comfortable levels as well, ala Grant Petersen's preferred handle bar height and other sundry rules.

I will do a more ride performance oriented review of sorts after I get this set up squared away with longer cables and housings. Until then, this should give you a better idea how a good, proper drop stem can make drop bars work better on a hard tail mtb designed around flat bars. The Cigne stem comes in black as shown, silver, or a special nickle finish. You can get Velo Orange components from your local bike shop.

NOTE- I bought the Velo Orange Cigne stem with my own damn money and was not paid nor bribed for this review. All statements are my own and may not reflect the opinions of Grant Petersen, Velo Orange, or anybody else on this planet. So there.

Velo Orange Cigne Stem Overview

The Velo Orange "Cigne" stem is an "LD" type stem for drop bar mtb's

Background: In the weird world of off road drop bars, one of the main issues is getting the drops up in the air high enough that the drop position becomes your primary hand position. Let's face it, there are not many hard tail mountain bikes that were ever designed around such an idea, so typically you will find yourself retrofitting drops to a flat bar hard tail mtb. When you try to do this, you will find yourself fighting against two big hurdles that are hard to clear.

The first of these two hurdles is that the reach, or in old mountain biker's parlance, the effective top tube length, is going to be a bit too long for a drop bar. Why? because unlike flat bars, a drop bar adds to the overall reach of the cockpit. The "reach" of the drops adds to the effective top tube length, so stem length is critical to a successful drop bar conversion on an old mountain bike. The stem reach needs to be very short, typically.

The second hurdle is that the head tube lengths on most mountain bikes are relatively short compared to those bikes designed for drop bars. Why? Because drop bars have depth while flat bars are on a single plane. To make the drop section useful in almost every case, you need a stem with a steep rise. Those are typically very hard to find in short reach dimensions. It's either that or you get a frame designed around drop bars which will typically have a longer head tube to alleviate that issue. See the Salsa Fargo and El Mariachi models for a perfect example of what I mean here.

Back in the 1980's, builders of mountain bikes used a stem design that was most often associated with Potts, Ibis, and Cunningham bikes to get around the two hurdles I mention above. Known as the "LD" type stem by many, it is a simple and elegant way to get around the longer top tubes and shorter head tubes of mountain bikes when drop bars are desired. The trouble was that these custom builders either became something else, died out, or stopped producing these types of stems over the ensuing years till now. The only way to get such a stem was to contract a custom builder that was amenable to the idea of making stems to make you one, which is obviously very expensive. So, most riders just "make do" with whatever stems they can get.

My Karate Monkey with a Dimension riser stem in the shortest reach and highest rise available. 

Above you can see what I mean about "making do". This is my '03 Karate Monkey with a Origin 8 "Gary Ergo Sweep OS Bar" (Velo Orange has the identical bar as the Daija Far Bar) and I am using the Dimension stem in the highest rise and shortest reach possible. Without adding a stack-o-spacers on a longer steer tube, (which is impossible since I cut that fork in '03), this is the best possible set up I could get. Well, other than a custom stem. Anyway, the drop section is a bit too low for my liking, and as you can see, the tops are about at the same level as the saddle. I also wasn't keen on the reach, which was a bit too long for my tastes.

A quick mock up using the Cigne stem. Now that is a big difference!

Above here you can see my quick mock up using the Velo Orange Grand Cru Cigne Stem. Sheesh folks! Do we really need such long names?!! Maybe we could have called it the "Tom" stem, or the "Nancy" stem and made it simpler. Anyway......

Fancy pants long name aside, this stem radicalizes my set up. Check out the reach, which is 70mm for the stem. You can get an 80mm reach Cigne stem too, but I went for the shortest option here. Obviously, the height is there as well. Check out how much higher the drop section is. Totally usable now as opposed to marginally usable before.

You can check out all the technical mumbo-jumbo here if you want to, but the bottom line is that now one can get a tested, well designed, good looking stem for converting a mtb to drop bar use. This stem will make many more set ups far more versatile and workable than before at a reasonable cost. You could also probably use this stem to raise a road bike's handle bar to more comfortable levels as well, ala Grant Petersen's preferred handle bar height and other sundry rules.

I will do a more ride performance oriented review of sorts after I get this set up squared away with longer cables and housings. Until then, this should give you a better idea how a good, proper drop stem can make drop bars work better on a hard tail mtb designed around flat bars. The Cigne stem comes in black as shown, silver, or a special nickle finish. You can get Velo Orange components from your local bike shop.

NOTE- I bought the Velo Orange Cigne stem with my own damn money and was not paid nor bribed for this review. All statements are my own and may not reflect the opinions of Grant Petersen, Velo Orange, or anybody else on this planet. So there.