Velo Orange Utility Bar & Utility Rack Review

The Velo Orange Utility Rack & Utility Bar

 Early in May I got the Velo Orange Utility Bar and Utility Rack mounted to my 2003 Surly Karate Monkey. Since then I have hauled and carried various items from apparel items, a jar of gravel, books, and tools in a bag I obtained which I mounted to the Utulity Rack. I have also carried my Rodecaster podcast unit on the rack amongst a few other items which I bungeed onto the Utility Rack before I had the bag. 

All along I also had two water bottle cages mounted to the backside of the Utility Bar and usually those bottles were filled up. So, between that and all the various cargo loads I feel I have a good handle on what the Utility Rack can do. 

The Utility Bar has also shown merit as a single speed capable bar which, yes- is a thing. I'll get to all of that in this final take on these items which were provided to me by Velo Orange. (See The Standard Disclaimer) 

The jar of gravel went in there. The Velo Orange Utility Rack and Utility Bar on duty here in the country.

If you are not familiar with these components, I did an opening review on the Utility Bar and Utility Rack here. The only additional information I have to add here on these components is that they are now available to purchase from Velo Orange. The Utility Bar is $130.00 and the Utility Rack is $90.00.

Okay, so what's the deal? Well, the Utility Rack is a pretty versatile rack for many mid to smaller sized loads. Gotta pick up a small bag of groceries? How about some beer or soda pop? maybe you have a gym bag or backpack you are tired of wearing? Those things and more are perfect items for carrying on the Utility Rack. It mounts pretty securely to the Utility Bar so you don't have rattles, weird mounting issues, or any fear that the thing will move on you in a negative way. If you can lash it to the rack securely, the rack will not let you down. (As long as you observe the spec weight limitations!) 

The Utility Bar is all steel, and it is heavy. I was worried that it would turn out to be a stiff, unforgiving bar that would be painful on my old hands. But, along with some smart Cardiff cork composite grips, it was anything but. The bar actually has some amount of compliance and in the end, some aluminum flat bars I have ridden were far worse in terms of comfort. 

But that doesn't mean that the Utility Bar was a noodle, especially when cranking out a climb or starting from a dead stop as a single speeder. My Karate Monkey is geared a bit on the high side, and with 180mm cranks, I need to stand and mash, leveraging the bar to enable me to stroke the pedals, and the Utility Bar was great in those circumstances. The width is plenty long enough to help you generate power, and you have a lot of leverage over that load which is attached directly to that bar. That's something to keep in mind here also. 

Some folks were wondering about the bottles being mounted facing the rider. Would that cause my knees to strike the cages or bottles? In fact, they weren't an issue. Even wildly cranking out a sprint across a street to beat traffic, I wasn't seeing any contact between my legs and the cages. Of course, this will all be predicated upon your specific set up. A short top tube bike in combination with a lower head tube will cause an issue, perhaps. But on this bike, it was of no concern. 

Negatives or drawbacks? Yes, a couple here I can think of. First, anytime you fix the relationship between components you lose adjustability. So, the rack and handle bar cannot be adjusted for personal preferences without one thing affecting the other. For instance, you cannot level the rack without it affecting how the swept portion of the bar sits in your hands and vice versa. Say you like the sweep of a bar pointed up slightly. Well, your rack base will not be level. That's the thing you have to accept here, the lack of individual adjustability for each part of the Utility system. 

The other thing I found was that my older Avid levers would not fully clamp the Utility Bar, as if it were very slightly undersized. Your levers may work fine, but I was able to move my levers despite the clamp being fully closed on the bar. 

Finally, the system weighs a lot! You cannot be concerned about weight here. If you are, you'd be best to skip the Utility Bar and Utility Rack for something else entirely. These components will never be mistaken for "weight-weenie" items! That said, they are well designed and I have no doubt that these components will be durable and long lasting. I know that they work really well, and so the weight? To me its a good trade-off for functionality and versatility. 

In the end, I have really liked the Utility Bar and Utility Rack. If you can get on with the lack of ergonomic/rack adjustability, which I was able to do, then this should be on your radar if you want a very sturdy, stable front rack and handle bar. You could also just run the bar without the rack and have water bottle mounts accessible from the cockpit of your bike, which is another way to look at the Utility Bar. The Utility Rack could come off and be put back on again, or you could leave it on permanently for the ultimate "utilitarian" bike. (Ha!) 

Thanks to Velo Orange for the opportunity to review these items for Guitar Ted Productions.

Velo Orange Utility Bar & Utility Rack Review

The Velo Orange Utility Rack & Utility Bar

 Early in May I got the Velo Orange Utility Bar and Utility Rack mounted to my 2003 Surly Karate Monkey. Since then I have hauled and carried various items from apparel items, a jar of gravel, books, and tools in a bag I obtained which I mounted to the Utulity Rack. I have also carried my Rodecaster podcast unit on the rack amongst a few other items which I bungeed onto the Utility Rack before I had the bag. 

All along I also had two water bottle cages mounted to the backside of the Utility Bar and usually those bottles were filled up. So, between that and all the various cargo loads I feel I have a good handle on what the Utility Rack can do. 

The Utility Bar has also shown merit as a single speed capable bar which, yes- is a thing. I'll get to all of that in this final take on these items which were provided to me by Velo Orange. (See The Standard Disclaimer) 

The jar of gravel went in there. The Velo Orange Utility Rack and Utility Bar on duty here in the country.

If you are not familiar with these components, I did an opening review on the Utility Bar and Utility Rack here. The only additional information I have to add here on these components is that they are now available to purchase from Velo Orange. The Utility Bar is $130.00 and the Utility Rack is $90.00.

Okay, so what's the deal? Well, the Utility Rack is a pretty versatile rack for many mid to smaller sized loads. Gotta pick up a small bag of groceries? How about some beer or soda pop? maybe you have a gym bag or backpack you are tired of wearing? Those things and more are perfect items for carrying on the Utility Rack. It mounts pretty securely to the Utility Bar so you don't have rattles, weird mounting issues, or any fear that the thing will move on you in a negative way. If you can lash it to the rack securely, the rack will not let you down. (As long as you observe the spec weight limitations!) 

The Utility Bar is all steel, and it is heavy. I was worried that it would turn out to be a stiff, unforgiving bar that would be painful on my old hands. But, along with some smart Cardiff cork composite grips, it was anything but. The bar actually has some amount of compliance and in the end, some aluminum flat bars I have ridden were far worse in terms of comfort. 

But that doesn't mean that the Utility Bar was a noodle, especially when cranking out a climb or starting from a dead stop as a single speeder. My Karate Monkey is geared a bit on the high side, and with 180mm cranks, I need to stand and mash, leveraging the bar to enable me to stroke the pedals, and the Utility Bar was great in those circumstances. The width is plenty long enough to help you generate power, and you have a lot of leverage over that load which is attached directly to that bar. That's something to keep in mind here also. 

Some folks were wondering about the bottles being mounted facing the rider. Would that cause my knees to strike the cages or bottles? In fact, they weren't an issue. Even wildly cranking out a sprint across a street to beat traffic, I wasn't seeing any contact between my legs and the cages. Of course, this will all be predicated upon your specific set up. A short top tube bike in combination with a lower head tube will cause an issue, perhaps. But on this bike, it was of no concern. 

Negatives or drawbacks? Yes, a couple here I can think of. First, anytime you fix the relationship between components you lose adjustability. So, the rack and handle bar cannot be adjusted for personal preferences without one thing affecting the other. For instance, you cannot level the rack without it affecting how the swept portion of the bar sits in your hands and vice versa. Say you like the sweep of a bar pointed up slightly. Well, your rack base will not be level. That's the thing you have to accept here, the lack of individual adjustability for each part of the Utility system. 

The other thing I found was that my older Avid levers would not fully clamp the Utility Bar, as if it were very slightly undersized. Your levers may work fine, but I was able to move my levers despite the clamp being fully closed on the bar. 

Finally, the system weighs a lot! You cannot be concerned about weight here. If you are, you'd be best to skip the Utility Bar and Utility Rack for something else entirely. These components will never be mistaken for "weight-weenie" items! That said, they are well designed and I have no doubt that these components will be durable and long lasting. I know that they work really well, and so the weight? To me its a good trade-off for functionality and versatility. 

In the end, I have really liked the Utility Bar and Utility Rack. If you can get on with the lack of ergonomic/rack adjustability, which I was able to do, then this should be on your radar if you want a very sturdy, stable front rack and handle bar. You could also just run the bar without the rack and have water bottle mounts accessible from the cockpit of your bike, which is another way to look at the Utility Bar. The Utility Rack could come off and be put back on again, or you could leave it on permanently for the ultimate "utilitarian" bike. (Ha!) 

Thanks to Velo Orange for the opportunity to review these items for Guitar Ted Productions.

Going Flat: The Bag

Used Velo Orange Campagne Bag

 I was able to finally complete my vision I had for the Velo Orange Utility Bar/Handlebar and the Karate Monkey recently. This post will detail what I had to do to make it all work. 

The former owner of this bag, a Velo Orange branded handle bar bag, offered me a ridiculously low price for it. In fact, I ended up doubling his offer and at that I still think I came away with a bargain. Most decent handle bar bags like this that I can find are well over $100.00 and I paid less than half of $100.00 for this bag which I cannot hardly tell has been used. 

So, with that score I came home and tried to figure out just how to attach this thing to the Utility Rack. This bag is meant to be held by a decaleur and I did not buy that since the decaleur would not have worked with the Utility Rack. The good thing was that the bag was drilled, or had holes, for the decaleur mount. I was able to kind of make my own mount which came out pretty well. 

Warning: If you are offended by roughed out fixtures and bits, please skip the next section.

If you like tinkering and finding parts to repurpose for other means, as I do, then read on....

Doing a bit of fab work

I searched around for a suitable material or bit to make a set of hooks. I also kept an eye out for something to use as a "backbone" across the back end of the bag to give it some place to be attached to as well. In the end I found an old steel fender brace for a cruiser style bike that gave me inspiration. 

The steel was rigid for sure, and the ends already had holes, which I could use. My mind went to work, and using a hack saw, a hammer, some drift punches, a bench vise, and some files I was able to fashion a brace and hooks from the old fender brace. 

And there ya go!

I won't bore you all with the nitty-gritty details of drilling holes, deburring, filing, and attaching the bits to the bag with hardware I had saved over the years. Suffice it to say that the plan worked out and the bag isn't going to randomly come off the bike now. I'll show you why in a bit here.

It's uncanny. This bag is perfect for this rack in terms of size. It fits the base like a glove. No overhanging at all, and comes up high enough on the Utility Rack's backstop that the lid opens and closes on the bag with no interference from the rack. It was as if these two items were designed for each other, in a way. Well, besides the fact that the rearward facing pockets are next to unusable and that I had to pretty much invent a way to attach the bag to the Utility Rack! 

A look underneath.

The bag originally had a sewn in leather bit with a slot that ran perpendicular to the bike's centerline. The old owner had two plastic cable ties through this slot loosely enough that I could run an old toe strap through them and then through the slotted tabs on the Utility Rack. This will keep the bag from bouncing off the deck of the rack. 

And here you can see what is going on up top.

The hooks and "backbone" I fashioned out of the old fender brace bolted to the bag with water bottle bolts and Nylock nuts and washers. Then I toe strapped the "backbone with downward pressure toward the lower brace of the Utility Bar, drawing the bag down which puts pressure downward on the hooks which are gripping the rack. 

By the way, that's a sleeping bag in a dry bag inside the handlebar bag. Lots of "bag" talk there. Sorry! I may put some Presta Valve caps over the ends of the exposed water bottle bolts just to ward off any possibility for those threads to tear something up, but for now, it's not a concern. 

Loaded up for a test ride.

I loaded up the handle bar bag and went for a ramble around the neighborhood. I rode on gravel, in alleys, on pavement, and across some grassy spaces. Nothing seemed to upset the bag on the rack, so I think this is a go for the time being. 

The next test will be a run somewhere to make coffee and then back again. I want to go by gravel to a place I have in mind, but if time gets short I can always run the Green Belt route. We will see. It may not happen right away and if it doesn't next week is a busy week so it would end up getting pushed back into June. 

Dang! Half the year gone already!

Going Flat: The Bag

Used Velo Orange Campagne Bag

 I was able to finally complete my vision I had for the Velo Orange Utility Bar/Handlebar and the Karate Monkey recently. This post will detail what I had to do to make it all work. 

The former owner of this bag, a Velo Orange branded handle bar bag, offered me a ridiculously low price for it. In fact, I ended up doubling his offer and at that I still think I came away with a bargain. Most decent handle bar bags like this that I can find are well over $100.00 and I paid less than half of $100.00 for this bag which I cannot hardly tell has been used. 

So, with that score I came home and tried to figure out just how to attach this thing to the Utility Rack. This bag is meant to be held by a decaleur and I did not buy that since the decaleur would not have worked with the Utility Rack. The good thing was that the bag was drilled, or had holes, for the decaleur mount. I was able to kind of make my own mount which came out pretty well. 

Warning: If you are offended by roughed out fixtures and bits, please skip the next section.

If you like tinkering and finding parts to repurpose for other means, as I do, then read on....

Doing a bit of fab work

I searched around for a suitable material or bit to make a set of hooks. I also kept an eye out for something to use as a "backbone" across the back end of the bag to give it some place to be attached to as well. In the end I found an old steel fender brace for a cruiser style bike that gave me inspiration. 

The steel was rigid for sure, and the ends already had holes, which I could use. My mind went to work, and using a hack saw, a hammer, some drift punches, a bench vise, and some files I was able to fashion a brace and hooks from the old fender brace. 

And there ya go!

I won't bore you all with the nitty-gritty details of drilling holes, deburring, filing, and attaching the bits to the bag with hardware I had saved over the years. Suffice it to say that the plan worked out and the bag isn't going to randomly come off the bike now. I'll show you why in a bit here.

It's uncanny. This bag is perfect for this rack in terms of size. It fits the base like a glove. No overhanging at all, and comes up high enough on the Utility Rack's backstop that the lid opens and closes on the bag with no interference from the rack. It was as if these two items were designed for each other, in a way. Well, besides the fact that the rearward facing pockets are next to unusable and that I had to pretty much invent a way to attach the bag to the Utility Rack! 

A look underneath.

The bag originally had a sewn in leather bit with a slot that ran perpendicular to the bike's centerline. The old owner had two plastic cable ties through this slot loosely enough that I could run an old toe strap through them and then through the slotted tabs on the Utility Rack. This will keep the bag from bouncing off the deck of the rack. 

And here you can see what is going on up top.

The hooks and "backbone" I fashioned out of the old fender brace bolted to the bag with water bottle bolts and Nylock nuts and washers. Then I toe strapped the "backbone with downward pressure toward the lower brace of the Utility Bar, drawing the bag down which puts pressure downward on the hooks which are gripping the rack. 

By the way, that's a sleeping bag in a dry bag inside the handlebar bag. Lots of "bag" talk there. Sorry! I may put some Presta Valve caps over the ends of the exposed water bottle bolts just to ward off any possibility for those threads to tear something up, but for now, it's not a concern. 

Loaded up for a test ride.

I loaded up the handle bar bag and went for a ramble around the neighborhood. I rode on gravel, in alleys, on pavement, and across some grassy spaces. Nothing seemed to upset the bag on the rack, so I think this is a go for the time being. 

The next test will be a run somewhere to make coffee and then back again. I want to go by gravel to a place I have in mind, but if time gets short I can always run the Green Belt route. We will see. It may not happen right away and if it doesn't next week is a busy week so it would end up getting pushed back into June. 

Dang! Half the year gone already!

Velo Orange Utility Rack & Bar

Wildfire affected Sunset

 The Utility Bar and Utility Rack combination from Velo Orange I have been given to test and review (Standard Disclaimer) has been ridden plenty so far, even with a load, and this short post will be an update on my first impressions so far.

Oh, and I replaced the tires with Maxxis Ardents. So if this looks weird compared to what you remember, that may be why. 

The water bottle mounts got a mention in the comments from the last post about these parts. So, even out of the saddle pedaling is fine. I have no issues with knees hitting anything. I think everything is mounted high enough that this is not an issue. That's with 180mm cranks too which would send my knees in a larger arc than 175's would. 

Full water bottles kind of threw me for a little bit of a loop until my mind adjusted for them and now I have no problems with the weight there. I also strapped on my Pelican case for my Rodecaster Pro unit and took that a couple of times over to N.Y. Roll's home and back for recording podcasts. It was great to slap on a couple bungees to hold the case and just haul it over there. I thought that the weight up so high might prove to be a handful but with the Utility Bar's wide span I had an easy time adjusting to that and I think that a handlebar bag with a sleep system or food would weigh similarly, so I see no issues with bikepacking with this rack and bar. 

Obviously having the water bottles there is nice. So all in all? Yeah, I think I like this set up. Sure, the handlebar is pretty heavy, but it rides great, and well, I should not have any issues with the rack being bolted to it in terms of failures or being too flexy. I maybe could see a bolt failing at some point, due to corrosion, but that would be a negligence issue, I think, not a fault of the design. Otherwise, this seems to me to be a solid set up. 

I have a line on a bag for the rack, but it may take a little time as it is a local, private seller and he is busy and it has to be taken off a bike before I can get my mitts on it. In the meantime, I may have something else to use for a bit. Stay tuned.....

Velo Orange Utility Rack & Bar

Wildfire affected Sunset

 The Utility Bar and Utility Rack combination from Velo Orange I have been given to test and review (Standard Disclaimer) has been ridden plenty so far, even with a load, and this short post will be an update on my first impressions so far.

Oh, and I replaced the tires with Maxxis Ardents. So if this looks weird compared to what you remember, that may be why. 

The water bottle mounts got a mention in the comments from the last post about these parts. So, even out of the saddle pedaling is fine. I have no issues with knees hitting anything. I think everything is mounted high enough that this is not an issue. That's with 180mm cranks too which would send my knees in a larger arc than 175's would. 

Full water bottles kind of threw me for a little bit of a loop until my mind adjusted for them and now I have no problems with the weight there. I also strapped on my Pelican case for my Rodecaster Pro unit and took that a couple of times over to N.Y. Roll's home and back for recording podcasts. It was great to slap on a couple bungees to hold the case and just haul it over there. I thought that the weight up so high might prove to be a handful but with the Utility Bar's wide span I had an easy time adjusting to that and I think that a handlebar bag with a sleep system or food would weigh similarly, so I see no issues with bikepacking with this rack and bar. 

Obviously having the water bottles there is nice. So all in all? Yeah, I think I like this set up. Sure, the handlebar is pretty heavy, but it rides great, and well, I should not have any issues with the rack being bolted to it in terms of failures or being too flexy. I maybe could see a bolt failing at some point, due to corrosion, but that would be a negligence issue, I think, not a fault of the design. Otherwise, this seems to me to be a solid set up. 

I have a line on a bag for the rack, but it may take a little time as it is a local, private seller and he is busy and it has to be taken off a bike before I can get my mitts on it. In the meantime, I may have something else to use for a bit. Stay tuned.....

Going Flat: Velo Orange Utility Bar & Utility Rack

Yesterday you got a sneak-peek at the handlebar/rack set up that I have on the Karate Monkey. You may have thought, "But wait! Didn't GT show us his Orange Crush as the bike he was going to go with flat bars?"

Yes, you would be correct. That was the plan, but there was some sort of wire crossing somewhere that led me to go with the Karate Monkey after all, and you might be surprised to know that was my first choice anyway. 

So, briefly then: I was offered a chance to review this rack and handle bar (Standard Disclaimer) and there were two options in finish- silver or black. I originally wanted black and had thought to mount the parts to the Karate Monkey. However; somehow I came to understand that black would not be available until later this month but that silver was available immediately. Okay, I could use that on the Orange Crush, but I'd need some silver levers and why not use Velo Orange cantis too? So, that's why I wrote what I wrote last week. 

You can imagine my surprise then on Friday when I opened up the box and saw a black component. Well......back to the drawing board! I sought out my black/grey Avid levers and found them, so that led me back to the Karate Monkey and well, there you have it!

Okay, now with that out of the way, let's talk about this Utility Bar and Utility Rack. These parts are meant to work together to form a solid cargo-carrying option for flat bar bikes. The Utility Bar is made from ChroMo steel and is available in riser and flat (shown) options in black or silver. The Utility Rack is an stainless rack that bolts to the Utility Bar in one of two orientations- With the longer part on the bottom or the shorter part on the bottom. There are also eyelets for a generator light mount, centered, in either orientation. 

The Utility Bar has eyelets to mount the Utility Rack in four spots, but these are through-hole, threaded mounts which are also spaced perfectly for a water bottle cage. So, you could mount the rack, use water bottle cages facing you, or not use the rack and have water bottle cages facing away from you. I suppose you could also use something like a Wolf Tooth B-Rad accessory mount to do all kinds of stuff with as well. 

The Utility Bar is not lightweight. You can imagine that it has to be somewhat stout to support a rack, and it is rated to MTB test spec. That said, it weighs in at 820 grams. The Surly Moloko Bar, a steel multi-hand position flat bar, weighs in at a claimed 100 grams less than that, for comparison. The Utility Bar is also pretty wide at just shy of 800mm with my Cardiff cork grips installed. 

A new look up front.

The Utility Rack weighs in at 570 grams with hardware. It has a 12lb weight limit (conservatively) and price is yet to be determined with an availability late this month or the first part of June. Same deal with the Utility Bar in terms of pricing and availability. UPDATED 5/12/23: The price for the Utility Bar in Black or Silver is $130.00 and the Utility Rack is $90.00 in either color, black or silver.

I mounted everything up and installed two stainless steel water bottle cages on there for good measure. The bike rides and handles very nicely with this set up. I was a bit afraid that the Utility Bar would be too stiff, but it does have some give to it and the cork grips lend some comfort as well. I've got a line on a Velo Orange handle bar bag that will sit nicely on this rack, so I am looking forward to getting that and seeing how this all will work together. 

I'll have a full review on Riding Gravel on this also. More soon.....

Going Flat: Velo Orange Utility Bar & Utility Rack

Yesterday you got a sneak-peek at the handlebar/rack set up that I have on the Karate Monkey. You may have thought, "But wait! Didn't GT show us his Orange Crush as the bike he was going to go with flat bars?"

Yes, you would be correct. That was the plan, but there was some sort of wire crossing somewhere that led me to go with the Karate Monkey after all, and you might be surprised to know that was my first choice anyway. 

So, briefly then: I was offered a chance to review this rack and handle bar (Standard Disclaimer) and there were two options in finish- silver or black. I originally wanted black and had thought to mount the parts to the Karate Monkey. However; somehow I came to understand that black would not be available until later this month but that silver was available immediately. Okay, I could use that on the Orange Crush, but I'd need some silver levers and why not use Velo Orange cantis too? So, that's why I wrote what I wrote last week. 

You can imagine my surprise then on Friday when I opened up the box and saw a black component. Well......back to the drawing board! I sought out my black/grey Avid levers and found them, so that led me back to the Karate Monkey and well, there you have it!

Okay, now with that out of the way, let's talk about this Utility Bar and Utility Rack. These parts are meant to work together to form a solid cargo-carrying option for flat bar bikes. The Utility Bar is made from ChroMo steel and is available in riser and flat (shown) options in black or silver. The Utility Rack is an stainless rack that bolts to the Utility Bar in one of two orientations- With the longer part on the bottom or the shorter part on the bottom. There are also eyelets for a generator light mount, centered, in either orientation. 

The Utility Bar has eyelets to mount the Utility Rack in four spots, but these are through-hole, threaded mounts which are also spaced perfectly for a water bottle cage. So, you could mount the rack, use water bottle cages facing you, or not use the rack and have water bottle cages facing away from you. I suppose you could also use something like a Wolf Tooth B-Rad accessory mount to do all kinds of stuff with as well. 

The Utility Bar is not lightweight. You can imagine that it has to be somewhat stout to support a rack, and it is rated to MTB test spec. That said, it weighs in at 820 grams. The Surly Moloko Bar, a steel multi-hand position flat bar, weighs in at a claimed 100 grams less than that, for comparison. The Utility Bar is also pretty wide at just shy of 800mm with my Cardiff cork grips installed. 

A new look up front.

The Utility Rack weighs in at 570 grams with hardware. It has a 12lb weight limit (conservatively) and price is yet to be determined with an availability late this month or the first part of June. Same deal with the Utility Bar in terms of pricing and availability. UPDATED 5/12/23: The price for the Utility Bar in Black or Silver is $130.00 and the Utility Rack is $90.00 in either color, black or silver.

I mounted everything up and installed two stainless steel water bottle cages on there for good measure. The bike rides and handles very nicely with this set up. I was a bit afraid that the Utility Bar would be too stiff, but it does have some give to it and the cork grips lend some comfort as well. I've got a line on a Velo Orange handle bar bag that will sit nicely on this rack, so I am looking forward to getting that and seeing how this all will work together. 

I'll have a full review on Riding Gravel on this also. More soon.....