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| This is my photo of Jim Cummings (L) and Joel Dyke, co-founders of the DK200 |
The latest podcast dropped last Friday evening. This one was inspired by you, the readers of Guitar Ted Productions. I received a couple comments which were questions and I took them to the podcast to give you all some longer answers. Plus we get N.Y. Roll's perspective as well.
I also covered the recent news from the Gravel Cycling Hall of Fame. You can refer to the post I made when the news came out by clicking HERE.
In that post I mentioned the issue I had with Jim Cummings exclusion from the Hall. While some of you may have noticed, some of you may not read the comments to my posts. I received a comment from a GCHoF board member who completely ignored the question of Jim's exclusion and instead restated that the current direction of the GCHoF will be maintained going forward.
I only bring this up because I reference this in the podcast. So there is some context for my remarks should you choose to listen in. The episode can be accessed HERE on Spotify, or you can find the Guitar Ted Podcast on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.
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| New PCL jersey |
New Jersey Day:
The Pirate Cycling League (PCL) is an entity that has been around now for almost 20 years. You could argue that its roots go back further than 2006, but the jersey says 2006, so... I'm going with that.
One of the latest designs for a jersey from the PCL just arrived here at GT Headquarters and I must say, I like it a lot! This jersey says - to me at least - what it is about gravel cycling that I found attractive in the first place.
A couple of things come to mind immediately. First, gravel cycling was, at least originally, a rebellion. The act of putting on events, be they competitive or not, on gravel was an act of defiance in several ways. There was the rejection of overly complicated rules, uppity attitudes, and against the licensing/entry fees that seemed to be designed to fleece the rider and enrich....somebody.
That is reflected in the motorcycle gang-like faux denim look with 'patches' and non-matching fonts. It also is a bit "punk rock" in that way. Knowing the mind(s) behind this, I'm leaning more punk rockish here.
Then there is the historical aspect. The front features several "patches" which represent notable people and events from the PCL's past. You have "CVO", (Christopher Van Oyen) and the rainbow striped "g" for Randy Gibson. Two "pirates" that we lost far too soon.
You've got the "TODR" patch (Tour of Dirt Roads), which represents the PCL's first event promoted that took in the area around Lincoln, Nebraska's dirt roads or "MMR's" as they are known as around those parts.
Then maybe my favorite thing on the jersey is the "Hello" sticker. It hearkens back to a time when events were smaller, less structured, and everyone was interested in everyone else. No pretenses, just humans in honest fellowship.
I need another jersey like I need a another hole in my head, but this spoke to me and I had to grab one. It will go alongside my other PCL jerseys and I'll likely be wearing this one a bunch during 2024. I know it may not matter to anyone else, but this PCL thing means something - to me, at any rate.
The PCL's motto, "Ride Free", encapsulates so much of what I like about gravel and some gravel events from the past to the present. It eschews corporatization, barriers to entry, and any attempts to codify the sport by way of rules or a culture driven only by competition.
Yes, Gravel Worlds was a PCL event until recently. You could say that Gravel Worlds strayed from the molds cast originally by the PCL, and you'd get no argument from me. But now that the PCL has separated itself from Gravel Worlds, I think the ideas behind what the PCL stands for are better represented. That's just my opinion on matters.
15 comments:
Appreciate the latest podcast episode, and addressing my question about Salsa Cycles. I was listening to it on my gravel ride which I did aboard a bike that has a lot of features that Salsa should have been the one pushing (Lauf Seigla).
It's interesting to hear that QBP runs all the brands "separately," yet all the brands have to fight over the same resources. With that in mind, QBP starting brands like Heller, Cogburn, and Foundry is, in hindsight, a pretty poor move. That must have spread those shared resources incredibly thin making it tough for all of the brands to perform at the proper level.
It was also nice to hear that I wasn't the only one that was bummed out when riders like Greg Gleason were unceremoniously dumped by Salsa.
@Tyler Loewens - Thanks for listening to the podcast! I'm glad it resonated with you.
Concerning how "Q" was being run then: I think their hope was that their branching out into these categories would find foothold with their vast dealer base/customers. What was not really taken into account then was how many of those dealers were being coerced by the brands they represented to clear out more room on their sales floors for the "Big Four" brands (Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Giant)
Something had to give, and given that the Q brands had less consumer awareness, those were the brands that were pushed aside, or in some cases never tried at all.
So, poor timing and yes - probably some bad concepts in there as well. I was critical of how Foundry was marketed from the get-go. I mean, who calls plastic bikes "foundry"? That doesn't even make any sense. Heller was another head scratcher.
Concerning sponsorships of riders: Yeah, N.Y. Roll and I talk about this from time to time. We can name most of the sponsored riders from long ago, but over the past five to ten years? I have a hard time coming up with much for name recognition.
FWIW, I was unceremoniously dumped by Salsa too… It’s how they do things.
The omission of Jim Cummins is a dark stain on the Gravel Cycling Hall of Fame, in my opinion. I understand some people hate how he went out, but the fact remains that he and Joel Dyke TOGETHER started the world’s largest, most influential gravel event. That should be enough.
I mean, I have misgivings with others who I’ve voted for, and who have gotten in, because I work hard to not bring my personal bias into my voting. If the facts support their inclusion in the GCHoF, I will vote for them.
Jim Cummins absolutely should be inducted into the GCHoF.
I see in Utah state bill SB0212 would limit cyclists (including racers) on public roads and paths to 20mph. I hope this is a bad joke. If not all future races in Utah might be "outlaw" pirate style events.
GT, I remember that Frostbike (2007?) where you and I met when we introduced Strider. Q had several of those newer brands including Civia? a City Bike line? They also were distributing BMC at the time. My thoughts then were that their resources were spread thin. It also appeared to me that they were trying to build a bike for every niche. I am sure part of this strategy was for areas with many IBD's. More lines meant they could have market penetration w/o multiple dealers stepping on each others toes in a large metro? Just my impressions from the time.
I think we all know why Jim isn't in the Hall but hopefully over time those opinions will change and he'll eventually be recognized for is contributions to gravel more than an opinion he shared on his personal social media. Whether that shared opinion is considered right or wrong it shouldn't overshadow what he did for gravel, Kansas, Emporia, the DK/Unbound and the sacrifices he made in his personal life and career to help launch an entire sport... If not for Jim, Joel and the DK would gravel as a sport be where it is now? How can you have a respected institution telling the history of gravel if that history is incomplete, edited and sanitized for the sake of a few people's feelings on a subject that had nothing to do with the sport at all?
As for the PCL. I feel like there is a shift, at least locally, of folks starting to look to smaller gravel events or moving away from "big gravel". As stated several times the ethos of the gravel movement wasn't based on rules, organization, money and pro racers and it seems many who got into gravel to avoid those things are now riding away from organized gravel for those very same reasons. Organized gravel isn't dead for sure as the younger riders are starting to gravitate to the sport but there does seem to be an exodus of "retro grouches" who have no use for what it's becoming. GW and the PCL were synonymous for years and aren't now... I still feel like that transition was and still is not being handled gracefully. There has never been any official announcement, recognition or passing of the event and that's something I think needs to be rectified. It's never too late to do the right thing.
@MG - Amen!
@Phillip Cowan - Occasional "Draconian" attempts at stifling cycling happen all across the world and particularly here in the USA. It's a "car-culture" thing.
So far those ideas (mostly) have not been passed into law, and I also hope that this continues to be the case. Generally speaking, it seems to me that most of these law propositions come from very uninformed and entitled positions.
@Tman - Oh yeah! I had forgotten that Q distributed BMC for a bit. Intrestingly, I think fostering an import and support of brands like BMC may have worked out better in the end than what they did.
Civia was indeed a commuter/city brand that was mishandled from the start. I have a little insight into that, but am not at liberty to say anything more.
@Rydn9ers - I couldn't agree more with your comments regarding Jim.
PCL: Yeah, I think I feel similarly, but here it is not my place to delve into any of that.
I will say that the personalities involved in the split are - to my way of thinking - polar opposites when it comes to what GW was to stand for and how that was to be accomplished. That's all I have to say on that for now.
@Rydn9ers – Thank you. Your comments are spot on, from my perspective.
I know one of the pushes for me away from big gravel events is how they handle withdrawals and deferments. Sometimes things happen and a rider needs to skip the ride. For Unbound you have to apply 7 months ahead for a slot. You have to replay half the fee for a deferment to the next year and all your fee in under 90 days. I feel that is a "fuck you - we don't want to deal with this and we are big enough not to have to deal with it. Did we say fuck you?" policy.
@Aaron, I am a bit torn on this subject. I do agree that the fact that most big events require you to sign up months in advance and often you need to be ready to register within seconds of it opening if you want to get in at all is a bit of a gamble not knowing what life might throw at you between registration opening and the actual race. It's a bit ridiculous and has kept me from attempting to enter certain events if I have something else going on at the time they open. But it's also the monster that we as participants helped to create by chasing "the big event".
I can also see from the events standpoint that they are somewhat reliant on the money that comes in from registration to pay for the event. They have a known number of participants which equates to a known number of dollars to budget for the event and other ancillary costs. Each refund or deferral eats into that pile of cash so at some point I can see where they would need to stop the loss of money they had been expecting and budgeting with. I do feel that transfers could be utilized for a longer time period before the event than refunds or deferrals as the money is still coming into the budget making it a wash essentially for the rider and the event. However those would need to end well before the event also, if nothing else just due to logistics of changing rider info at the same time they are focusing on last minute event details. Trying to do both right up to race day would be a nightmare IMO. Don't get me wrong I see your point and I empathize with it as I have been caught in it as well but I'm not sure what the answer is as it's more complex than it seems on the surface.
@Aaron @Rydyn9ers - Thanks both of you for your comments. I agree that there are valid points on each side to consider.
In my opinion, part of this has to do with the entry fees for some of these high-end events getting pretty significant. Triple digit entry fee prices are no joke when you are a rider that has to pony up to get on a roster. Making it a lottery to even have that chance ups the stress factor even higher. This - as Rydyn9ers says, is partially a result of our (the riders) desire for having certain events as "bucket-list" events to do.
Having put on events myself, I can also tell you that one of the biggest headaches for a promoter is rider registration, deferrals, and refunds. Wait lists are another one. Man! I HATED dealing with the attitudes that some folks brought with them who demanded certain things be done to fit their perceived needs. I totally get why big-time events are wanting to make that process be in their favor a bit.
So, what to do? I go back to Aaron's initial comment where he stated that certain policies can "push him away" from certain events. This is the best way to handle all of this, in my opinion. As I have stated many times, "vote with your dollars". There are TONS of other events on gravel and at least a handful of them are probably going to fit you and what your expectations are to a "T". The ones that grind your gears? Even if they are the "big ones" to go ride? They don't need your attendance and you shouldn't stress out just to participate.
This is the beauty of having so many gravel events to choose from now. Back 15 years ago we did not have this abundance of choices.
And I'll leave one last comment: You can always start your own event and do it your way. (Not saying this in particular to Aaron or Rydyn9ers, but just pointing something out to all)
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