Ted-terview: Guitar Ted Gets Interviewed: Part 2

 I mentioned in last week's FN&V that I had been interviewed by Haley Hunter-Smith and that it was a rather revealing interview. I have been given the green light to share the interview with you here on the blog.

This was/is a part of a research effort by the Queen's University and was an interview conducted by Haley Hunter-Smith with myself via a Zoom call. The transcript was then sent to me about one week later. 

I don't plan on sharing the entire interview, and this will be the last post- most likely- to get through. I am going to lightly edit the interview for clarity and readability. 

The research was done in an effort to find out from many different individuals what the "Spirit of Gravel" might entail, why, or if it is important to preserve, and what- if anything- can be gained from that for future race directors, gravel enthusiasts, and more. 

Part 2: The Spirit Of Gravel

In this part of the interview, I get into my views on the "Spirit of Gravel" and what that means to me. 

Haley Hunter-Smith: I was going to ask this later on, but you've...we're kind of going in this direction right now. Anyway, so do you think that you are - are you able to articulate partly, or in full what you think
the spirit of gravel is? Or would, should we revisit that later?

Guitar Ted: No, I'm always ready to talk about that! First of all, I think that a lot of people get hung up by that word "spirit". You know, so much of Western culture isn't spiritual. They don't understand, I don't think, what they're even talking about, but that's a big part of the gravel scene. The spiritual nature of it. 

So people get connected to nature through being out in the in the back country, or, you know, rural areas. And it does change you to a degree, I think the more time you spend in nature, I think that's definitely a spiritual thing, and it's something that doesn't get talked a lot about, because you know, there's… You get a little bit too touchy feely about spiritual things, and some people are gonna back away from that. 

So when I hear the term "spirit of gravel", I always kind of smirk, because I wonder if people really understand what that means. Or have you been considering what that might mean? And so to me, um, all throughout my career, putting on events, the spiritual nature of what I was trying to accomplish was very important to me. I wanted people to be touched in that way, and be changed in that way, and I thought that- my hypothesis was that - If you put people in in a stressful situation where they're broken down physically and mentally, that they're more open to that kind of thing. So I found that to be true for a lot of people that participated in my events, and I think that's true for a lot of people who do gravel. 

But again, this is something that not a lot of people talk about. I think when people talk about the spirit of gravel, more often than not, they're talking about what their version of it is, and they want to protect that, you know. And so it comes down to things like, how, how are my events run technically. And how do I want to see my competition, you know, presented, or how do I want to be included? Or, you know, it comes down to things like that which I don't think… That's not necessarily this. A spiritual thing. That's more or less a cultural thing, you know. So I think that's all mixed up in this term. And my feeling is a lot of people don't really understand what they're talking about.

HHS: Okay, that's a unique perspective. I quite enjoyed that. So you you talk… you did mention that, so you, in your view gravel is a spiritual experience, and you mentioned that that is something that a lot of Western culture doesn't think about, we're not particularly spiritual. So is this… Do you have other experiences in sport? And is this spiritual aspect of it something unique to the gravel experience? Can you contrast those at all?

GT: Well, I think that if you're open to spiritual things and ideas, that if you participate in, it doesn't have to be cycling even. I mean, I'm sure people have had, you know, spiritual experiences running or rock climbing or wrestling, you know for that matter. It's, it's... or just walking. You know, out in nature. Obviously, there's spiritual houses of worship and things like that. So I think that, um, you know we don't have, you know, a hold of that idea 100% for gravel riding. It goes across all kinds of things.

 But you know, going back to my personal experience with it. I had done some self-supported cycle touring in the nineties. The thing that I always go back to is there was this particular day in the middle of South Dakota when I was dropped by my 2 companions and I couldn't see them anymore. And it was, it was probably a 100 mile day. We were crazy doing these 100 mile days, and I was very broken down mentally and physically at that point in time. I had a spiritual experience on the bike, and I thought that, uh, looking back on it, that was a very pivotal point in my life. That kind of sent my life off in a different direction because of that situation, and I thought more people should have the opportunity to experience that, than just myself. And so that was part of the motivation, for how I did my events, to kind of put people in those situations where they might come across that same experience that I did. 

But I think that, you know, I'm not unique in that sense. I think, you know, there's many people who have expressed feelings and ideas that I hear, and I read, and I'm like, “Yeah, that's, uh, that's pretty much where I came from as well. So, you know, by no means do I have a lock on what the spirit of gravel is, I think it's, it's an individual thing and unique across many different people that you know, they're gonna come to it in different ways, and express it in different ways. 

I think that's something that is there. And again, you know, being that we're, you know, more about, “If I can't touch it, it doesn't exist”, that kind of thing where Western culture is a lot like that. I think that it becomes very difficult for us to express those ideas. Where I think that comes a lot more naturally to other parts of the world. People from other parts the world go, "Well, yeah, of course, you know that's something that exists. And it's real, and we get it, you know". So I think that it's, it's very fascinating to me to see people in athletic competitions, or just riding, bike packing, you know, where you're just out there, and they come away from it with, you know, being changed in that way.  I enjoy that part of the scene.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Thank you to Haley Hunter-Smith for that great interview and the permission to share part of that with you all here. There is a lot more, she interviewed me for an hour, but much of that is about Trans Iowa and I've beaten that horse to death here. Plus I gave some thoughts on the big-time gravel scene as well. But, I think this was the most important stuff here which I have shared. 

If there is enough interest, I may post more. For now- Thanks again for reading!

Ted-terview: Guitar Ted Gets Interviewed: Part 2

 I mentioned in last week's FN&V that I had been interviewed by Haley Hunter-Smith and that it was a rather revealing interview. I have been given the green light to share the interview with you here on the blog.

This was/is a part of a research effort by the Queen's University and was an interview conducted by Haley Hunter-Smith with myself via a Zoom call. The transcript was then sent to me about one week later. 

I don't plan on sharing the entire interview, and this will be the last post- most likely- to get through. I am going to lightly edit the interview for clarity and readability. 

The research was done in an effort to find out from many different individuals what the "Spirit of Gravel" might entail, why, or if it is important to preserve, and what- if anything- can be gained from that for future race directors, gravel enthusiasts, and more. 

Part 2: The Spirit Of Gravel

In this part of the interview, I get into my views on the "Spirit of Gravel" and what that means to me. 

Haley Hunter-Smith: I was going to ask this later on, but you've...we're kind of going in this direction right now. Anyway, so do you think that you are - are you able to articulate partly, or in full what you think
the spirit of gravel is? Or would, should we revisit that later?

Guitar Ted: No, I'm always ready to talk about that! First of all, I think that a lot of people get hung up by that word "spirit". You know, so much of Western culture isn't spiritual. They don't understand, I don't think, what they're even talking about, but that's a big part of the gravel scene. The spiritual nature of it. 

So people get connected to nature through being out in the in the back country, or, you know, rural areas. And it does change you to a degree, I think the more time you spend in nature, I think that's definitely a spiritual thing, and it's something that doesn't get talked a lot about, because you know, there's… You get a little bit too touchy feely about spiritual things, and some people are gonna back away from that. 

So when I hear the term "spirit of gravel", I always kind of smirk, because I wonder if people really understand what that means. Or have you been considering what that might mean? And so to me, um, all throughout my career, putting on events, the spiritual nature of what I was trying to accomplish was very important to me. I wanted people to be touched in that way, and be changed in that way, and I thought that- my hypothesis was that - If you put people in in a stressful situation where they're broken down physically and mentally, that they're more open to that kind of thing. So I found that to be true for a lot of people that participated in my events, and I think that's true for a lot of people who do gravel. 

But again, this is something that not a lot of people talk about. I think when people talk about the spirit of gravel, more often than not, they're talking about what their version of it is, and they want to protect that, you know. And so it comes down to things like, how, how are my events run technically. And how do I want to see my competition, you know, presented, or how do I want to be included? Or, you know, it comes down to things like that which I don't think… That's not necessarily this. A spiritual thing. That's more or less a cultural thing, you know. So I think that's all mixed up in this term. And my feeling is a lot of people don't really understand what they're talking about.

HHS: Okay, that's a unique perspective. I quite enjoyed that. So you you talk… you did mention that, so you, in your view gravel is a spiritual experience, and you mentioned that that is something that a lot of Western culture doesn't think about, we're not particularly spiritual. So is this… Do you have other experiences in sport? And is this spiritual aspect of it something unique to the gravel experience? Can you contrast those at all?

GT: Well, I think that if you're open to spiritual things and ideas, that if you participate in, it doesn't have to be cycling even. I mean, I'm sure people have had, you know, spiritual experiences running or rock climbing or wrestling, you know for that matter. It's, it's... or just walking. You know, out in nature. Obviously, there's spiritual houses of worship and things like that. So I think that, um, you know we don't have, you know, a hold of that idea 100% for gravel riding. It goes across all kinds of things.

 But you know, going back to my personal experience with it. I had done some self-supported cycle touring in the nineties. The thing that I always go back to is there was this particular day in the middle of South Dakota when I was dropped by my 2 companions and I couldn't see them anymore. And it was, it was probably a 100 mile day. We were crazy doing these 100 mile days, and I was very broken down mentally and physically at that point in time. I had a spiritual experience on the bike, and I thought that, uh, looking back on it, that was a very pivotal point in my life. That kind of sent my life off in a different direction because of that situation, and I thought more people should have the opportunity to experience that, than just myself. And so that was part of the motivation, for how I did my events, to kind of put people in those situations where they might come across that same experience that I did. 

But I think that, you know, I'm not unique in that sense. I think, you know, there's many people who have expressed feelings and ideas that I hear, and I read, and I'm like, “Yeah, that's, uh, that's pretty much where I came from as well. So, you know, by no means do I have a lock on what the spirit of gravel is, I think it's, it's an individual thing and unique across many different people that you know, they're gonna come to it in different ways, and express it in different ways. 

I think that's something that is there. And again, you know, being that we're, you know, more about, “If I can't touch it, it doesn't exist”, that kind of thing where Western culture is a lot like that. I think that it becomes very difficult for us to express those ideas. Where I think that comes a lot more naturally to other parts of the world. People from other parts the world go, "Well, yeah, of course, you know that's something that exists. And it's real, and we get it, you know". So I think that it's, it's very fascinating to me to see people in athletic competitions, or just riding, bike packing, you know, where you're just out there, and they come away from it with, you know, being changed in that way.  I enjoy that part of the scene.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Thank you to Haley Hunter-Smith for that great interview and the permission to share part of that with you all here. There is a lot more, she interviewed me for an hour, but much of that is about Trans Iowa and I've beaten that horse to death here. Plus I gave some thoughts on the big-time gravel scene as well. But, I think this was the most important stuff here which I have shared. 

If there is enough interest, I may post more. For now- Thanks again for reading!

Ted-terview: Guitar Ted Gets Interviewed; Part 1

 I mentioned in last week's FN&V that I had been interviewed by Haley Hunter-Smith and that it was a rather revealing interview. I have been given the green light to share the interview with you here on the blog.

This was/is a part of a research effort by the Queen's University and was an interview conducted by Haley Hunter-Smith with myself via a Zoom call. The transcript was then sent to me about one week later. 

I don't plan on sharing the entire interview, and this will take a couple posts- at least- to get through. I am going to lightly edit the interview for clarity and readability. 

The research was done in an effort to find out from many different individuals what the "Spirit of Gravel" might entail, why, or if it is important to preserve, and what- if anything- can be gained from that for future race directors, gravel enthusiasts, and more. 

Part One: The Beginnings Of The Modern Gravel Scene:

Haley Hunter-Smith

The first part of the interview covered my introduction to gravel cycling. 

Haley Hunter-Smith: So. To kick things off, I was just wondering if you could tell me how you came to gravel.

Guitar Ted: Okay, well, that would be through well… there’s a couple different things I could say. First of all, I grew up in Iowa and we have upwards of seventy thousand miles of gravel and dirt roads here, so it surrounds you and it’s part of your life whether you want it to be or not. 

Many of my relatives lived on gravel roads, and so growing up when I went to visit them, a lot of our play was on gravel roads and, you know, I’m very familiar with gravel roads from that stand point. So that’s one thing. And the other thing would be that I fell in love with bicycling at a young age, and you know, just exploring and going adventuring and things of that nature were part of it. 

And then the, the thing that really kicked it off probably, was that I worked with another gentleman by the name of Jeff Kerkove in a bicycle shop in this area. We had our boss, and he’d done this stunt with three other gentlemen where they rode across Iowa on road bikes in a day. And he was very proud of that, and he let us know that repeatedly. We became very tired of the story, and after the retelling of it for the umpteenth time, Jeff looked at me and said, “Well, you know we could do something like that with mountain bikes, but we wouldn't want to do it on pavement. Do you think we could do this across Iowa off-pavement?” And I thought for a moment, and knowing, you know, what I knew about gravel roads and maps and things, I said, “Yeah, I think that's possible, I think we could do something across the State of Iowa on gravel roads. And so then he said,” Let's do it!”. And that kicked off the event called Trans Iowa, where we set up an event that went across the state on gravel roads. About 310 miles or so. 

And yeah, just through doing that event, and watching the athletes that we got to come to that first event, ride on gravel roads I was… Suddenly a switch went off, and I well, of course, why haven't I been doing this myself? And so that was when I got involved in putting on events, and participating as an individual, riding on gravel roads. You know, that was 2005, and so I 've been doing that ever since, right?

Jeff Kerkove (L) and GT at the pre-race meeting for Trans Iowa v1 in 2005

HHS: So you really were one of the very, very first, I can’t even call you an adopter… a founder!

GT: Well, uh, I 'm very quick to tell people that we weren't the first people to ride on gravel roads, or to even have an event, a competitive event, on gravel roads. These things were happening here and there, you know, and I could name several examples of that. But we were... What I would say, we were in the right place at the right time with technology, the way things were, and with a new idea of, to most people, for a bicycling event. And those two things combined, set up a lot of dominoes, set off a wave. 

It was like dropping a stone in the middle of a pond, and the influence of what we did went out into the community of cycling and caught on. So you know, I'm just very fortunate that I was in that place at that time, and you know, I like to say that was the moment "the modern gravel scene" started, and what you would know as gravel today was, that was the genesis of it. Back then in 2005.

HHS: Okay, well, thank you very much for starting this (laughs). When you think back to those early experiences, your early renditions of Trans Iowa as an event organizer, and also as a gravel participant, do you have specific emotions that you associate with those experiences?

GT: Yeah, I would say that there were two things that really struck me immediately. One was the camaraderie, and the openness to accepting people that were part of this. So to give you some context to that… I came into this as not really an athlete. I'd done some cross country mountain biking in the 90's, but I was more or less just, you know, a nearly 50 year old, bicycle mechanic that nobody knew, and I went to this event with Jeff Kerkove, who at that time- He was a very well known 24hr mountain biker, solo mountain biker, in the scene, and sponsored you know, and a lot of people knew who he was.

So he attracted all these ultra mountain bikers to our first event, and I was intimidated because I wasn't part of that scene, and nobody knew who I was. Yet, when I went there they were all like, Oh, yeah, this, you know, they're very kind to me, and very open and accepting of me, and complimentary to what we were doing. So I came away from that first event feeling very humble and very much excited, that I was you know, accepted as part of that scene. So that was probably the biggest thing to me that that impressed me at that point in time.

HHS: Okay. And are, are you still involved in gravel in any sort of capacity?

GT: Yeah, I retired from putting on events in 2019. Now I write for my own personal blog, which has been going on since 2005. Then I also am a co-owner of a site called Riding Gravel, where we review and test products for gravel cycling.

HHS: Okay. And so, from that perspective, having been a very early community member, and to what you're witnessing now, do you perceive any changes in the community?

GT: Well, it's become a lot more diverse and a lot bigger (laughs). Obviously, yeah, I, I just think I'm excited, because you know the things that I felt about the gravel scene, coming into it as an outsider, so to speak, and being accepted, I see that still happening. And that people are really pushing for that. I think of several different organizations and people that are really working hard to make sure that everybody's accepted into the gravel scene. And you know we, we talked a little bit about, before we started recording, about the spirit of gravel, and I think that's a really big part of it - That people are accepted for who they are and what they bring to the scene is okay, and that's what I'm really excited about as far as how things look today. I'm being completely blown away by how big it's got though (laughs).

_______________________________________________________________________________

Next- in Part 2 of the Ted-terview: On Saturday the interview will pick up and get into what I think about this whole "Spirit of Gravel" thing. Stay tuned....

Ted-terview: Guitar Ted Gets Interviewed; Part 1

 I mentioned in last week's FN&V that I had been interviewed by Haley Hunter-Smith and that it was a rather revealing interview. I have been given the green light to share the interview with you here on the blog.

This was/is a part of a research effort by the Queen's University and was an interview conducted by Haley Hunter-Smith with myself via a Zoom call. The transcript was then sent to me about one week later. 

I don't plan on sharing the entire interview, and this will take a couple posts- at least- to get through. I am going to lightly edit the interview for clarity and readability. 

The research was done in an effort to find out from many different individuals what the "Spirit of Gravel" might entail, why, or if it is important to preserve, and what- if anything- can be gained from that for future race directors, gravel enthusiasts, and more. 

Part One: The Beginnings Of The Modern Gravel Scene:

Haley Hunter-Smith

The first part of the interview covered my introduction to gravel cycling. 

Haley Hunter-Smith: So. To kick things off, I was just wondering if you could tell me how you came to gravel.

Guitar Ted: Okay, well, that would be through well… there’s a couple different things I could say. First of all, I grew up in Iowa and we have upwards of seventy thousand miles of gravel and dirt roads here, so it surrounds you and it’s part of your life whether you want it to be or not. 

Many of my relatives lived on gravel roads, and so growing up when I went to visit them, a lot of our play was on gravel roads and, you know, I’m very familiar with gravel roads from that stand point. So that’s one thing. And the other thing would be that I fell in love with bicycling at a young age, and you know, just exploring and going adventuring and things of that nature were part of it. 

And then the, the thing that really kicked it off probably, was that I worked with another gentleman by the name of Jeff Kerkove in a bicycle shop in this area. We had our boss, and he’d done this stunt with three other gentlemen where they rode across Iowa on road bikes in a day. And he was very proud of that, and he let us know that repeatedly. We became very tired of the story, and after the retelling of it for the umpteenth time, Jeff looked at me and said, “Well, you know we could do something like that with mountain bikes, but we wouldn't want to do it on pavement. Do you think we could do this across Iowa off-pavement?” And I thought for a moment, and knowing, you know, what I knew about gravel roads and maps and things, I said, “Yeah, I think that's possible, I think we could do something across the State of Iowa on gravel roads. And so then he said,” Let's do it!”. And that kicked off the event called Trans Iowa, where we set up an event that went across the state on gravel roads. About 310 miles or so. 

And yeah, just through doing that event, and watching the athletes that we got to come to that first event, ride on gravel roads I was… Suddenly a switch went off, and I well, of course, why haven't I been doing this myself? And so that was when I got involved in putting on events, and participating as an individual, riding on gravel roads. You know, that was 2005, and so I 've been doing that ever since, right?

Jeff Kerkove (L) and GT at the pre-race meeting for Trans Iowa v1 in 2005

HHS: So you really were one of the very, very first, I can’t even call you an adopter… a founder!

GT: Well, uh, I 'm very quick to tell people that we weren't the first people to ride on gravel roads, or to even have an event, a competitive event, on gravel roads. These things were happening here and there, you know, and I could name several examples of that. But we were... What I would say, we were in the right place at the right time with technology, the way things were, and with a new idea of, to most people, for a bicycling event. And those two things combined, set up a lot of dominoes, set off a wave. 

It was like dropping a stone in the middle of a pond, and the influence of what we did went out into the community of cycling and caught on. So you know, I'm just very fortunate that I was in that place at that time, and you know, I like to say that was the moment "the modern gravel scene" started, and what you would know as gravel today was, that was the genesis of it. Back then in 2005.

HHS: Okay, well, thank you very much for starting this (laughs). When you think back to those early experiences, your early renditions of Trans Iowa as an event organizer, and also as a gravel participant, do you have specific emotions that you associate with those experiences?

GT: Yeah, I would say that there were two things that really struck me immediately. One was the camaraderie, and the openness to accepting people that were part of this. So to give you some context to that… I came into this as not really an athlete. I'd done some cross country mountain biking in the 90's, but I was more or less just, you know, a nearly 50 year old, bicycle mechanic that nobody knew, and I went to this event with Jeff Kerkove, who at that time- He was a very well known 24hr mountain biker, solo mountain biker, in the scene, and sponsored you know, and a lot of people knew who he was.

So he attracted all these ultra mountain bikers to our first event, and I was intimidated because I wasn't part of that scene, and nobody knew who I was. Yet, when I went there they were all like, Oh, yeah, this, you know, they're very kind to me, and very open and accepting of me, and complimentary to what we were doing. So I came away from that first event feeling very humble and very much excited, that I was you know, accepted as part of that scene. So that was probably the biggest thing to me that that impressed me at that point in time.

HHS: Okay. And are, are you still involved in gravel in any sort of capacity?

GT: Yeah, I retired from putting on events in 2019. Now I write for my own personal blog, which has been going on since 2005. Then I also am a co-owner of a site called Riding Gravel, where we review and test products for gravel cycling.

HHS: Okay. And so, from that perspective, having been a very early community member, and to what you're witnessing now, do you perceive any changes in the community?

GT: Well, it's become a lot more diverse and a lot bigger (laughs). Obviously, yeah, I, I just think I'm excited, because you know the things that I felt about the gravel scene, coming into it as an outsider, so to speak, and being accepted, I see that still happening. And that people are really pushing for that. I think of several different organizations and people that are really working hard to make sure that everybody's accepted into the gravel scene. And you know we, we talked a little bit about, before we started recording, about the spirit of gravel, and I think that's a really big part of it - That people are accepted for who they are and what they bring to the scene is okay, and that's what I'm really excited about as far as how things look today. I'm being completely blown away by how big it's got though (laughs).

_______________________________________________________________________________

Next- in Part 2 of the Ted-terview: On Saturday the interview will pick up and get into what I think about this whole "Spirit of Gravel" thing. Stay tuned....