Thoughts On Tubulars For Gravel Road Riding

A 40mm tubular from FMB proposed for gravel racing. Image pinched from BikeRumor.com

The tubular tire has a long history in cycling going back to the 19th Century. Basically, a round "tube" makes up the tire cross section. The tube is then made circular and tread is attached to the outside circumference of the tube. That then is glued to a rim which is specifically designed for this type of tire. This process of gluing can take quite a bit of preparation and time.

Flat tires can be ridden on, (until the tire carcass shreds or comes unglued), but repairs to tubulars are not often done and then only by skilled craftsmen and not immediately in the field. Typically one either carries another tubular tire pre-glued for replacement or one has to change out wheels from a "pit" on course or from a support vehicle, as you see often in Pro road racing.

So......why would one want a tubular for gravel road riding or racing? Well, for one thing, pinch flats would be non-existent theoretically speaking, as there is no traditional tube which would be separate from the tire to pinch. However, a cut tire is much more likely, if pressures are run low. Secondly, tubular tires have famously low rolling resistance and corner very well. Finally, there is a certain faction of cyclists that would find running tubulars something that would tickle their romanticized notions of cycling. So, for them, it would be justified.

I've written about the possibility of tubular tires for gravel road riding before here. In fact, I was so curious that I had Velocity build me a set of tubular wheels to try it out on based upon a tip from the folks at Challenge Tires years ago that they, (or someone) was going to make a big, wide tubular. That didn't happen so I actually laced the hubs over to some clincher rims this past Summer and hung the rims from the rafters.

With the typical gravel here in Iowa being chunky, loose, and deep, would tubulars survive the punishment?

I think certain places would do well with tubular tires. I think about Southeastern Minnesota, as an example, or anywhere the gravel is smaller in size, not very deep, hard packed, or really mostly dirt. However; that isn't what you will find everywhere, or in most areas that have unpaved roads. So, to my mind, this idea doesn't have enough merit to convince me that it is a solution that is better than a tubeless tire. While tubulars can be fantastically light, that probably isn't a good idea for a tire that will be getting constant roughing up by loose gravel. Not to mention riding anywhere there are puncture makers like goat heads and other thorny, pointy nasties on roads.

Tubeless tires typically are pretty bombproof out on gravel these days. It isn't impossible to have a flat, cut a tubeless tire, or to have some other issue, but those instances where tubeless gravel tires fail is rare and getting ever rarer. Even tubed tire use is easier on the maintenance side, and repairs are a snap in the field. Tubulars? Not so much.

This all has become relevant again because of a company famous for making tubulars, FMB, which has come out with an idea for a tubular gravel tire. (See the BikeRumor.com article here) In my opinion, this FMB tire is a stab at seeing what the reaction to a tubular for gravel racing might be. There is really no sense in the tire shown otherwise since the casing is huge, exposed badly on the sidewalls, and the tread is simply a CX tread glued on to this bigger casing. It isn't a practical design.

If this gains favor amongst racers, and FMB actually does a design worthy of use, which this design exercise clearly is not, then what? Well, it will be one more reason for the riders who are using these to call for support vehicles. I mean, you aren't really going to expect anyone in their right mind to carry a spare tubular and rip off the damaged tire, replace it with a pre-glued spare in the field, and carry onward, are you? Of course not! This isn't going anywhere unless gravel racing becomes just like Pro road races. So, unless the UCI gets behind this, or unless gravel races open up to going in the direction of Pro road races, this idea has zero merit. Because tubeless tires are already a far better idea than this is.

Thoughts On Tubulars For Gravel Road Riding

A 40mm tubular from FMB proposed for gravel racing. Image pinched from BikeRumor.com

The tubular tire has a long history in cycling going back to the 19th Century. Basically, a round "tube" makes up the tire cross section. The tube is then made circular and tread is attached to the outside circumference of the tube. That then is glued to a rim which is specifically designed for this type of tire. This process of gluing can take quite a bit of preparation and time.

Flat tires can be ridden on, (until the tire carcass shreds or comes unglued), but repairs to tubulars are not often done and then only by skilled craftsmen and not immediately in the field. Typically one either carries another tubular tire pre-glued for replacement or one has to change out wheels from a "pit" on course or from a support vehicle, as you see often in Pro road racing.

So......why would one want a tubular for gravel road riding or racing? Well, for one thing, pinch flats would be non-existent theoretically speaking, as there is no traditional tube which would be separate from the tire to pinch. However, a cut tire is much more likely, if pressures are run low. Secondly, tubular tires have famously low rolling resistance and corner very well. Finally, there is a certain faction of cyclists that would find running tubulars something that would tickle their romanticized notions of cycling. So, for them, it would be justified.

I've written about the possibility of tubular tires for gravel road riding before here. In fact, I was so curious that I had Velocity build me a set of tubular wheels to try it out on based upon a tip from the folks at Challenge Tires years ago that they, (or someone) was going to make a big, wide tubular. That didn't happen so I actually laced the hubs over to some clincher rims this past Summer and hung the rims from the rafters.

With the typical gravel here in Iowa being chunky, loose, and deep, would tubulars survive the punishment?

I think certain places would do well with tubular tires. I think about Southeastern Minnesota, as an example, or anywhere the gravel is smaller in size, not very deep, hard packed, or really mostly dirt. However; that isn't what you will find everywhere, or in most areas that have unpaved roads. So, to my mind, this idea doesn't have enough merit to convince me that it is a solution that is better than a tubeless tire. While tubulars can be fantastically light, that probably isn't a good idea for a tire that will be getting constant roughing up by loose gravel. Not to mention riding anywhere there are puncture makers like goat heads and other thorny, pointy nasties on roads.

Tubeless tires typically are pretty bombproof out on gravel these days. It isn't impossible to have a flat, cut a tubeless tire, or to have some other issue, but those instances where tubeless gravel tires fail is rare and getting ever rarer. Even tubed tire use is easier on the maintenance side, and repairs are a snap in the field. Tubulars? Not so much.

This all has become relevant again because of a company famous for making tubulars, FMB, which has come out with an idea for a tubular gravel tire. (See the BikeRumor.com article here) In my opinion, this FMB tire is a stab at seeing what the reaction to a tubular for gravel racing might be. There is really no sense in the tire shown otherwise since the casing is huge, exposed badly on the sidewalls, and the tread is simply a CX tread glued on to this bigger casing. It isn't a practical design.

If this gains favor amongst racers, and FMB actually does a design worthy of use, which this design exercise clearly is not, then what? Well, it will be one more reason for the riders who are using these to call for support vehicles. I mean, you aren't really going to expect anyone in their right mind to carry a spare tubular and rip off the damaged tire, replace it with a pre-glued spare in the field, and carry onward, are you? Of course not! This isn't going anywhere unless gravel racing becomes just like Pro road races. So, unless the UCI gets behind this, or unless gravel races open up to going in the direction of Pro road races, this idea has zero merit. Because tubeless tires are already a far better idea than this is.

Transformation

Velocity rim/hub on lower left- Bontrager rim/Velocity hub upper right

Okay, so back a few years ago I heard that Challenge Tires were going to make a big, fat tubular for gravel riding. In fact, they asked me if I'd try out a pair if they made them. Since I am all about tires, of course, I said "yes".

Trouble was that I did not have a tubular wheel set. That's kind of a problem if you want tubular tires. So, something had to be done!

That "something" was fulfilled by Velocity USA and they set me up with a Major Tom Disc wheel set. Disc because.....oh, I don't know. I figured that would be the coming thing then. I was mostly right about that part!  So, anyway, here I was, all set for some fat tubular gravel tire action. I was told that the ride quality would be amazing, and I still do not doubt that it would be the case. I was also told that there would be a new, pressure sensitive tape which would make gluing up tubulars a thing of the past. I was stoked about it all. So, I waited, and waited.....and waited........

And it never happened. Those wheels hung in the Lab for years.....no tubulars. I looked in to buying some to just give the idea a try out. Gulp! Fat, quality tubulars exist, but my goodness......... No, I wasn't going to pay that price for an experiment that, in all reality, not many people would have benefited from, and I wasn't that curious. So, what the heck! I had these wheels that were no good to me.

I tried selling them, but to no avail. So, I came up with this crazy idea to "spoke over" some compatible rim to this wheel set, freeing me from tubular prison. I looked at the wheels and they were 24 spoke count wheels?!! Uggh! That made finding a good rim candidate a lot harder. As did the ERD for the Major Tom, which is larger than many rims in the 700c category for disc use. 

Finally, I came across some close out Bontrager Scandium rims which would work. So, they were rim brake rims. Ahh.......at this point, I didn't care. I got them and the process of swapping the rims out is complete now. Wheels transformed! Now I can actually make use of them. They are TLR, meaning the rims are designed to use the excellent Bontrager tubeless rim strip, so that will be getting installed soon along with tubeless valve stems. I was pretty happy that the wheels ended up weighing 1600 grams on the dot. Not bad at all.

Now, the wheel with the silver rim pictured above is not the "before", tubular wheel. It is a completely different wheel  from a set I just bought from a co-worker. That wheel set is going to go on the rebuild of my original Inbred 29"er. So, stay tuned for that.....

Transformation

Velocity rim/hub on lower left- Bontrager rim/Velocity hub upper right

Okay, so back a few years ago I heard that Challenge Tires were going to make a big, fat tubular for gravel riding. In fact, they asked me if I'd try out a pair if they made them. Since I am all about tires, of course, I said "yes".

Trouble was that I did not have a tubular wheel set. That's kind of a problem if you want tubular tires. So, something had to be done!

That "something" was fulfilled by Velocity USA and they set me up with a Major Tom Disc wheel set. Disc because.....oh, I don't know. I figured that would be the coming thing then. I was mostly right about that part!  So, anyway, here I was, all set for some fat tubular gravel tire action. I was told that the ride quality would be amazing, and I still do not doubt that it would be the case. I was also told that there would be a new, pressure sensitive tape which would make gluing up tubulars a thing of the past. I was stoked about it all. So, I waited, and waited.....and waited........

And it never happened. Those wheels hung in the Lab for years.....no tubulars. I looked in to buying some to just give the idea a try out. Gulp! Fat, quality tubulars exist, but my goodness......... No, I wasn't going to pay that price for an experiment that, in all reality, not many people would have benefited from, and I wasn't that curious. So, what the heck! I had these wheels that were no good to me.

I tried selling them, but to no avail. So, I came up with this crazy idea to "spoke over" some compatible rim to this wheel set, freeing me from tubular prison. I looked at the wheels and they were 24 spoke count wheels?!! Uggh! That made finding a good rim candidate a lot harder. As did the ERD for the Major Tom, which is larger than many rims in the 700c category for disc use. 

Finally, I came across some close out Bontrager Scandium rims which would work. So, they were rim brake rims. Ahh.......at this point, I didn't care. I got them and the process of swapping the rims out is complete now. Wheels transformed! Now I can actually make use of them. They are TLR, meaning the rims are designed to use the excellent Bontrager tubeless rim strip, so that will be getting installed soon along with tubeless valve stems. I was pretty happy that the wheels ended up weighing 1600 grams on the dot. Not bad at all.

Now, the wheel with the silver rim pictured above is not the "before", tubular wheel. It is a completely different wheel  from a set I just bought from a co-worker. That wheel set is going to go on the rebuild of my original Inbred 29"er. So, stay tuned for that.....

Friday News And Views

Where are the tubulars for gravel?

The shop where I work at was doing some tubulars for a customer the other day that is going to run them at RAGBRAI. (!!!) That's another story, but the wheels and tires got me to thinking about some conversations I had a couple years ago about tubulars for gravel road riding. Now........hold on there! I know you may be thinking that tubulars are a really stupid idea for gravel roads, but please humor me for a bit here......

There have been tubular tires for bicycle use for over a century, and much of that time the roads were gravel, dirt, or poorly paved. So, it isn't like the concept of a tubular wouldn't work, because clearly, history shows us that it can work and work well. Secondly, as with any other bicycle related thing, materials technology has advanced light years beyond where it was even ten years ago. This is important because the way in which we affix a tubular tire to a rim is changing drastically right now. That will make tubulars a much easier choice for cyclists going forward. Finally, the way in which tubulars work could actually make tubeless tires for gravel roads a poorer choice. For one thing, you'd never have to worry about burping a tire, blow offs, or rubber degradation which could lead to a blow off. Then there is weight, and that's a game a tubular tire and wheel will always win over a clincher.

The thing is, the hang up has always been the archaic way we've been affixing these tires to rims with glue. Folks don't want to mess with that, and it makes for a difficult situation in the field when it comes to a catastrophic flat, in which case you have to replace the tire. Well, now there are rim tapes out that solve this problem to a greater degree than before, and just on the horizon, there is the promise of a tape that will base it's tire holding prowess on air pressure. More pressure in the tubular pressing against the rim will equal a greater resistance to sheering forces. Less pressure in the tubular will create the opposite effect. That would mean that in case of a flat repair in the field, the new tubular could be exchanged easier, and when inflated, would theoretically have the same adhesion to the rim as the previous tire when it was inflated. Immediate adhesion, and ease of mounting/dismounting tubulars would revolutionize the idea of tubular tire usage for all sorts of cycling, and gravel road riders would benefit.

I think tubular tires like that in larger sizes, like 35-40mm, make a lot of sense for gravel roads. I say bring it on already!

Jeremy climbing a B Level road on the '10 GTDRI

Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational

It's time to start talking about this year's "score to settle" with a certain course I have used three times previously for the Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational. (Heretofore to be referred to as the GTDRI)  First, let me say this: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE "INVITED" TO DO THIS RIDE. This is essentially a pompous name for a no-drop group ride. Got it? Just show up, have fun, be prepared to suffer, and do a 100 plus miles in a day. That's all. Now with that out of the way.......

This year's edition will be on Saturday July 25th, 2015. The ride will start at 5:30am and will be approximately 120 miles long. (I have 115 down, but it could be longer than that. Gotta check my old cues.) This will be a super tough day in the saddle if the weather is typical for that time of year. (Read "hot, humid, and possibly windy") Out of the three attempted GTDRI's on this route, only the first try was successful. One year it was just too blamed hot, and last year.....well. There was that crash where I got hit by a truck. So, I'm going back to finish the job and check this one off the list.

There will be more on this ride coming soon, but first I have Odin's Revenge to get through, and my main focus will be on that for now. That said, if you have any questions, feel free to ask in the comments or to shoot me an e-mail.

That's it for today. Have a great weekend and ride your bicycle somewhere fun!

Friday News And Views

Where are the tubulars for gravel?

The shop where I work at was doing some tubulars for a customer the other day that is going to run them at RAGBRAI. (!!!) That's another story, but the wheels and tires got me to thinking about some conversations I had a couple years ago about tubulars for gravel road riding. Now........hold on there! I know you may be thinking that tubulars are a really stupid idea for gravel roads, but please humor me for a bit here......

There have been tubular tires for bicycle use for over a century, and much of that time the roads were gravel, dirt, or poorly paved. So, it isn't like the concept of a tubular wouldn't work, because clearly, history shows us that it can work and work well. Secondly, as with any other bicycle related thing, materials technology has advanced light years beyond where it was even ten years ago. This is important because the way in which we affix a tubular tire to a rim is changing drastically right now. That will make tubulars a much easier choice for cyclists going forward. Finally, the way in which tubulars work could actually make tubeless tires for gravel roads a poorer choice. For one thing, you'd never have to worry about burping a tire, blow offs, or rubber degradation which could lead to a blow off. Then there is weight, and that's a game a tubular tire and wheel will always win over a clincher.

The thing is, the hang up has always been the archaic way we've been affixing these tires to rims with glue. Folks don't want to mess with that, and it makes for a difficult situation in the field when it comes to a catastrophic flat, in which case you have to replace the tire. Well, now there are rim tapes out that solve this problem to a greater degree than before, and just on the horizon, there is the promise of a tape that will base it's tire holding prowess on air pressure. More pressure in the tubular pressing against the rim will equal a greater resistance to sheering forces. Less pressure in the tubular will create the opposite effect. That would mean that in case of a flat repair in the field, the new tubular could be exchanged easier, and when inflated, would theoretically have the same adhesion to the rim as the previous tire when it was inflated. Immediate adhesion, and ease of mounting/dismounting tubulars would revolutionize the idea of tubular tire usage for all sorts of cycling, and gravel road riders would benefit.

I think tubular tires like that in larger sizes, like 35-40mm, make a lot of sense for gravel roads. I say bring it on already!

Jeremy climbing a B Level road on the '10 GTDRI

Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational

It's time to start talking about this year's "score to settle" with a certain course I have used three times previously for the Guitar Ted Death Ride Invitational. (Heretofore to be referred to as the GTDRI)  First, let me say this: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE "INVITED" TO DO THIS RIDE. This is essentially a pompous name for a no-drop group ride. Got it? Just show up, have fun, be prepared to suffer, and do a 100 plus miles in a day. That's all. Now with that out of the way.......

This year's edition will be on Saturday July 25th, 2015. The ride will start at 5:30am and will be approximately 120 miles long. (I have 115 down, but it could be longer than that. Gotta check my old cues.) This will be a super tough day in the saddle if the weather is typical for that time of year. (Read "hot, humid, and possibly windy") Out of the three attempted GTDRI's on this route, only the first try was successful. One year it was just too blamed hot, and last year.....well. There was that crash where I got hit by a truck. So, I'm going back to finish the job and check this one off the list.

There will be more on this ride coming soon, but first I have Odin's Revenge to get through, and my main focus will be on that for now. That said, if you have any questions, feel free to ask in the comments or to shoot me an e-mail.

That's it for today. Have a great weekend and ride your bicycle somewhere fun!

Psycho-Crossers To Go Tubeless?

<=== Stan's NoTubes "The Raven" cyclo-cross tire.

It appears that tubeless tire technology is going to take aim at the cross racing set this fall. Makes sense, at least to me. Bashing a skinny tire rig through rough grass and what ever else those promoters of pain throw at you, I would think tubeless would be an advantage.

Better grip, less rolling resistance, and no high priced tubular stuff to mess with. I can see where some racers may jump on this. Although, it probably isn't as light a system as a nice tubular cyclo-cross wheel set. I think it should be very interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe it will be a good thing for cyclo-cross.

I see Stan's is coming out with the tire pictured above and that Hutchinson has one too. (the Bulldog cyclo-cross tubeless ready concept) For me, it's interesting from the gravel road riding aspects, not so much for me hacking my lungs out jumping over barriers on somebodies lawn somewhere, but that's just me. I'd rather hack my lungs out on some mile and a half climb in Tama County, thank you very much!

At any rate, this tubeless stuff looks to take over the bicycling world. Or will it? I know one thing, when it works, it works well, and less flats with less rolling resistance is a good thing for cyclists. How many vehicles out their with pneumatic tires are still running tubed? Not many but the bicycle.

I'll be keeping my eyes on this cyclo-cross tubeless thing. It looks interesting to me. I won't be grabbing my bike and practicing mounts and dismounts anytime soon though!

Psycho-Crossers To Go Tubeless?

<=== Stan's NoTubes "The Raven" cyclo-cross tire.

It appears that tubeless tire technology is going to take aim at the cross racing set this fall. Makes sense, at least to me. Bashing a skinny tire rig through rough grass and what ever else those promoters of pain throw at you, I would think tubeless would be an advantage.

Better grip, less rolling resistance, and no high priced tubular stuff to mess with. I can see where some racers may jump on this. Although, it probably isn't as light a system as a nice tubular cyclo-cross wheel set. I think it should be very interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe it will be a good thing for cyclo-cross.

I see Stan's is coming out with the tire pictured above and that Hutchinson has one too. (the Bulldog cyclo-cross tubeless ready concept) For me, it's interesting from the gravel road riding aspects, not so much for me hacking my lungs out jumping over barriers on somebodies lawn somewhere, but that's just me. I'd rather hack my lungs out on some mile and a half climb in Tama County, thank you very much!

At any rate, this tubeless stuff looks to take over the bicycling world. Or will it? I know one thing, when it works, it works well, and less flats with less rolling resistance is a good thing for cyclists. How many vehicles out their with pneumatic tires are still running tubed? Not many but the bicycle.

I'll be keeping my eyes on this cyclo-cross tubeless thing. It looks interesting to me. I won't be grabbing my bike and practicing mounts and dismounts anytime soon though!

Big Time XC Racers To Go 29"er?

The day was coming and it finally happened. A 29"er has won a major elite men's XC race. You can check out the report here. This won't be the last time this happens either.

The thing about 29"ers and elite XC racers is really all down to one little objection: Wheel weight. You will notice that the majority of elite racers that do use 29"ers, (admittedly, most are Subaru/Gary Fisher riders) use sub 2 inch wide rubber to help keep the rotational weight to a minimum. Of course, the wheels themselves are also very light weight works of art in them selves. Ryan Trebon's race winning set weighed 1350 grams complete with tubeless tape and valves.

This is just the beginning, as I said, though. There are newer developments on the cusp of being used in racing that will transform the 29"er from the odd ball choice in elite XC to a commonly seen sight underneath the fastest pros. Some of these new developments are radical.

Things like tubular mountain bike tires and wheels will become much more common place, and are being used now. For 29"ers, this will help relieve the rim from some of its weight. Another development that will change both 26"er and 29"er racing is the carbon fiber rim. It's been coming, and even I have laced up a couple examples in the past. The new versions will be very light, but extremely strong and will overtake the ranks of pro XC racing in a hurry once they become available. Especially when the carbon fiber tubular mountain bike rims I saw become available.

All of these things will affect choices made by the pros. No longer will wheel weight become the deciding factor against using a 29"er in competition. Courses will dictate what gets used and every pro will start to demand that their sponsors have a race level 29"er in the stable for their use. Not right away, mind you. This is an Olympic year, and many riders will be loathe to switch up components or wheel sizes before such an important event. However: that said, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see one of the pros pull a 29"er out and use it come race day at the Olympics. After the Olympics is when I expect we'll really notice some equipment choice changes.

Big Time XC Racers To Go 29"er?

The day was coming and it finally happened. A 29"er has won a major elite men's XC race. You can check out the report here. This won't be the last time this happens either.

The thing about 29"ers and elite XC racers is really all down to one little objection: Wheel weight. You will notice that the majority of elite racers that do use 29"ers, (admittedly, most are Subaru/Gary Fisher riders) use sub 2 inch wide rubber to help keep the rotational weight to a minimum. Of course, the wheels themselves are also very light weight works of art in them selves. Ryan Trebon's race winning set weighed 1350 grams complete with tubeless tape and valves.

This is just the beginning, as I said, though. There are newer developments on the cusp of being used in racing that will transform the 29"er from the odd ball choice in elite XC to a commonly seen sight underneath the fastest pros. Some of these new developments are radical.

Things like tubular mountain bike tires and wheels will become much more common place, and are being used now. For 29"ers, this will help relieve the rim from some of its weight. Another development that will change both 26"er and 29"er racing is the carbon fiber rim. It's been coming, and even I have laced up a couple examples in the past. The new versions will be very light, but extremely strong and will overtake the ranks of pro XC racing in a hurry once they become available. Especially when the carbon fiber tubular mountain bike rims I saw become available.

All of these things will affect choices made by the pros. No longer will wheel weight become the deciding factor against using a 29"er in competition. Courses will dictate what gets used and every pro will start to demand that their sponsors have a race level 29"er in the stable for their use. Not right away, mind you. This is an Olympic year, and many riders will be loathe to switch up components or wheel sizes before such an important event. However: that said, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see one of the pros pull a 29"er out and use it come race day at the Olympics. After the Olympics is when I expect we'll really notice some equipment choice changes.