Building Up: Wheels For Fargo Gen 1- Part 2

In the previous update the wheel build for the Gen I Fargo was nearing completion.  With both wheels having been tensioned up, it was time for the accessory mounting phase. Rim strips, tires, sealant, rotors, cassette, and final check over is what was left here to show you. 

In case you missed the actual wheel building part, you can check that out HERE. 

I will say a few words about tensioning spokes before I move on. This process is important to get everything settled into each other. Nipples seating into their places on the rim. Spokes not hanging up on each other where they cross. Spoke heads and the length of spokes just past the head being seated, and not bowed out, but straight as can be. 

All these things are usually under the umbrella of "de-stressing" the wheel. You usually see this being done by a wheel builder when the builder squeezes pairs of spokes or if they take the wheel out of the stand and put lateral pressure on it in various ways. All of this is basically done to align spokes and nipples and to get better readings from a spoke tensionometer. 

Spoke tensionometers measure tension in kilograms of force. (kgf) Usually spokes are rated for optimum tension range. In my case it is 110kgf for the spokes I used. It is also noteworthy to know what the rim is rated to as well. Finally, more tension does not necessarily mean a stronger wheel. In fact, maximum tension allowable sometimes is not a good idea. (You limit the possibilities of truing a wheel maxed out on tension at its beginning of service later on if it comes out of true). 

The Bontrager TLR rim strip is a brilliant product.

After the wheels were finished up in the tensioning phase I moved on to placing the Bontrager TLR rim strips into the rim cavity of the Duster rims. This system is a brilliantly conceived of and executed way to seal off a rim bed for tubeless tire set ups. 

The TLR strip fits in like a Tupperware lid on a container. It is a bit stretchy, plasticky material which needs to be handled with care, but once in the rim, you have zero worries about leaking tape, or having to prep and install tape in the first place. 

I suppose it is a bit heavier than tape, but I'll take the bombproof reliability of this way of doing tubeless any day over having to use tape. Too bad Bontrager locked this idea up because I think it would be a huge benefit to riders if it could have been an open standard.  

Also- The TLR rim strips can be reused as long as you don't damage them when removing them from a rim. They are super easy to clean sealant off of, and the built up area for the valve stems insures that you can get a good, tight seal on the valve stem. 

I decided to use the Surly Extraterrestrial tires in the 29" x 2.5" size which were on these rims before. I currently have two other wheel sets with tires mounted which can be used on this Fargo. One is a HED Ardennes wheel set I have had forever and those have Rene Herse tires on them with Aeron TPU tubes. The other is a set of the original wheels off the Tamland Two set up with 29" x 2.2 (I think) Vittoria Terreno Dry tires. 

With the HED wheel set having the skinniest tires, the Terreno Dry being in between, I figured the 2.5" tires would slot in well and give me a kind of "over landing" wheel set for the Fargo. Besides, those fat Surly tires just look rad on the Gen I Fargo. 

This meant I needed to clean up the Extraterrestrials before I remounted them. I could have used a cleaner, but I took my time and just rolled off the old sealant with my thumbs. This took approximately two hours. (Note: I was not in any hurry)

Then it came time to mount the tires. I had to use my Challenge Tires "Smart Bead Seating Tool" to jack the last six inches of the tires onto the rim. That tool has been a lifesaver at times. Highly recommend it. 

Anyway, then I put in about 160ml's of sealant in each tire, (these are big volume tires!), and aired one up with just a floor pump. The other I had to remove the core, but it went up with a floor pump as well. Everything sat where it belonged at about 30psi. Not bad! 

With the tires mounted up I moved on to the final assembly of the wheels. This included mounting rotors, the cassette, and adjusting the brake calipers. 

The rotors I used were a set of ancient Avid rrotors the likes of which the Fargo would have had on it as new. Back in the day, people were not too jazzed about these rotors, but they hold up well, cut mud better than most, and - for me- are always pretty quiet. 

I did use brand new rotor bolts on this wheel set. That blue LocTite is a pain in the patukis.  

I did have to dress the splines on the Chris King free hub because it is made out of aluminum and free cogs in a cassette tend to raise up burs and cut little slots into the spline faces. Fortunately I happen to have a jeweler's file for just such an occasion. 

Once this was done and the cassette (from the HED wheel set, by the way) was mounted it was time for the wheels to go into the bike. Then I had to tweak the caliper positions on both ends, another pain in the patukis, but hey! I got it done! Finally I could hear that characteristic buzz from the rear hub. Nice! Then it was time to don a helmet and go for a test ride.....

 

Shout out to Kwik Star for the use of their privacy fence! 

And there you have it! The wheels are done and dusted. I think this wheel set will live on the Fargo most often. I really like the big Extraterrestrials on this bike and they sure do make rough gravel smoother. The rims look fantastic without those distracting stickers and my black/silver spoke theme looks amazing, in my opinion, as well. 

So.....if it ever stops raining, I will get out there on this bike yet this Fall. This one has the Super-Secret v1 chain lube on it, so it is a "control" bike for the current Lube-Off. That means I have to get out on some dry gravel when I can. Not to mention using the other bikes in the test!) 

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the wheel saga and I will give an update on things once I ride this more.  

Building Up: Wheels For Fargo Gen 1- Part 1

The completed rear wheel

You may remember my articles on deconstructing an old wheel set for parts. If you missed those posts, you can go back HERE for Part 1 and  HERE. for Part 2.

This will be an article on how I approach building a wheel set. So, while some of my choices may seem outside the norms of wheel building, this is how I've always done it, and to my knowledge, I've never had any failures related to how I built a wheel up for someone else or for myself. 

Wheel building can get to be a 'religion' and people get way into the weeds when it comes to technicalities, preferences, and such. I find a lot of this is unnecessary for the result which I want to achieve: That being a long-lasting, true wheel that I can rely on. Again - so far as I know - I've achieved this goal. Certainly for myself, I have done so, and I'm not about to change how I do things because of this. You may have a differing opinion, and this is fine. You do you. I'll do what works best for me. Thanks.... 

The parts for the front wheel

Okay, let's dive in here. I am using an old Bontrager Duster rim, 32 holes, an old Chris King hub, again with 32 holes, and I am lacing these up in my "signature" style utilizing black spokes, black brass nipples, silver spokes, and silver brass nipples. I lace all silver spokes with black nipples on one side, all black spokes with silver nipples on the other side, and each wheel is a mirror image of the other when it comes to spoke/nipple color. Complicated, I know, and I am not sure how I came to doing things this way, but I like the outcome. Plus it is unique to my wheels, as far as I know. 

Ari Andonopoulous cut and threaded these spokes for me. I think they are Sapim straight gauge. I know they are straight gauge, but what brand they are is maybe different than Sapim. Whatever.... DT Swiss, Wheelsmith, Sapim, all are good as far as I am concerned. I don't really care about the brand as long as it is a well-known, mainstream choice in the bicycle world. 

Brass nipples because alloy, while lighter, can corrode and fail easily if sealant gets at them, or if the spokes do not pass all the way through them when tensioned up. I'd just rather not worry about this and so brass works just fine with me. 

The rim is maybe one of Bontrager branded rims best products. Obviously Bontrager did not make these. They were just stickered up as Bontrager rims.Trek does build wheels in Wisconsin, but they do not extrude the rims and manufacture them here, at least not that I could find. But whatever....Duster rims are great rims if you can find them. A little heavy, yes, but durable and easy to build with. 

The first order of business was to clean up the exterior of the rim. I used WD-40 after de-stickering the rims. WD-40 cuts grease, gently dissolves adhesive from most stickers, and helps loosen old, dried on sealant. I estimate I spent about 15 - 20 minutes on this stage. 

Then it is on to prepping the spokes. I like to use Wheelsmith Spoke Prep. It is not cheap. However; it works and I have never had an issue with this product. (Link goes to Universal Cycles, by the way. I have no affiliation with this company or Wheelsmith) 

After applying a thin coating of Spoke Prep to the threads of each spoke, it is on to lacing the wheel. Before we get there, a word about other spoke preparation sauces. 

Linseed oil is the go-to for old school builders. DT Swiss has a concoction I've used a time or two as well which I do not mind. A mild thread locking compound can be used in a pinch, but be aware this usually impedes truing after the fact, as thread lockers can be stubborn to break free. 

I learned how to lace wheels from Gerd Schraner's "The Art of Wheelbuilding" (Amazon link) and I have utilized his four part wheel lacing method ever since. Some folks can insert all the spokes at once and go to town. Some do it in halves. Whatever your mind can wrap around, you all end up lacing the same basket weave. Cool... I do mine in four parts. I am not changing that. 

Some folks get into the "outward facing spokes" versus "inward facing spokes" and what way you twist the hub and which spokes "lead" and which "follow". It's all debatable. I've see folks argue every configuration. I lace my wheels a certain way, and it works.  

It just works. Every time.  

Anyway, I've noticed that when you lace up in quadrants, like I do, you know immediately when you've got either the wrong length spokes, or if you miss-laced a spoke.  I like that, because then I can easily go back and find what I did wrong. I had to do this with the rear wheel build as I miss-placed a spoke in the 3rd set. It was an easily corrected mistake. Gotta quit thinking about other stuff when I lace wheels and pay attention to what I am doing! 

I also like building in four sets because if I get interrupted it is easy to jump back in where I left off. At least it is for me. This is really handy at times. 

There are a bunch of little tricks and knowledge bits I use when lacing up a wheel which I won't get in to here. It would be too difficult to explain some of it without intense visual presentation. But suffice it to say that if you take your time, have a book like Gerd Schraner's, (or whatever wheel building "bible" you subscribe to), and stay in tune to the process, you could also build up a wheel. 

It is a very satisfying thing to have built up a wheel and one that is durable, smooth, and one which could last for years. Not to mention how amazing a structure a wheel is. Taking lengths of wire, brass nuts, an aluminum extrusion shaped into a rim, and a wheel hub, and turning it into a lightweight, strong structure is, to my mind, a minor miracle. 

I guess I find wheels fascinating. Maybe this is why I like building wheel sets for myself. 

The final product - a laced up wheel. It will now go over to the stand to be tensioned.

After lacing has been completed, the wheel goes into my Park truing stand I have had for decades and it gets tensioned up. I used to use a Wheelsmith tensionometer, but it is way out of its service interval and Wheelsmith no longer calibrates these tools anymore. So, I use a Park Tools tensionometer. It's fine. They work well and I get usable, long-lasting wheels all the same. 

I don't get all in the weeds with dial gauges to true wheels nor do I use the digital tensioning specs and super-fancy dishing tools, etc. That's all well and fine. I have my wheels, they work well, and stay straight and true. I see no need to go to such lengths, but again, if you do, that's awesome. 

Next up: Mounting tires and setting the wheels up on the Fargo Gen 1. Stay tuned....  

Friday News And Views

New WTB Course and Byway aero gravel tires

WTB Course And Byway Review Coming Soon:

The announcement on Wednesday concerning the first ever aero designed gravel tires from WTB leads me into the news that I have a couple sets of these tires to test now. 

I requested the Byway and the Course models because they should both fit bikes I have. At least the appropriate bikes for reviewing such tires. The Macro is a 54mm wide tire, and while I have bikes which will accept such a wide gravel tire, (Fargo, Singular Gryphon), I deemed these bikes not really in the target market for use case. That would probably work if I had a bike capable of handling a tire this wide and was more of a modern take on a gravel bike, such as the one I suggested last weekend here. 

Unfortunately, I do not have 'that bike', so I did not request 'that tire'. 

I should have both tires set up now and the review will commence with a post going up Monday. Look for that to come, if you are curious as to what these tires are all about. 

Thanks to WTB for sending these over for test/review.  

Wheel Building To Commence:

Thanks to my good friend, Ari, I have hand-cut and threaded spokes to get my current wheel build project underway this weekend, (hopefully). I've had the old wheels apart for a while now, but I had to find new spokes and nipples for the switch to Chris King Hubs. 

Searching my stash showed me I had no appropriate spokes. I searched online and wow.... It is hard to find spokes online without paying an arm and a leg. So, I reached out to my friend Ari. He's a mechanic at a shop in the Chicago area. He hand cut and threaded this bundle of spokes and supplied me with nipples to build up the wheels I will eventually put on the Fargo Gen I. 

This project is not a front burner issue for me right now. I have a lot of riding I need to be doing. So, the building of this wheel set may not happen right away. That or I'll get excited about it and build them up this weekend! 

Stay tuned!  

Register For The Last Rodeo!

If you missed the announcement by Iowa Wind and Rock earlier this week, you can catch that HERE. But essentially the event is going to be put on one more time, and then that will be it. 

Well, since that announcement I have had a few communications with the race directors and they wanted me to let you all know that registration for the event will open on November 1st. Registering is free. How this will be accomplished will be disseminated by Iowa Wind and Rock on their website. 

Check there for details on this last chance at the most unique gravel event in the world. 
 

25 Year Anniversary of 9 - 11:

Twenty five years ago you had never heard of me and I was wrenching on cars in an independent car repair shop in Cedar Falls, Iowa. On the morning of September 11th, 2001, our receptionist came in the shop where I was doing an oil change on a car and said something about a plane hitting one of the Twin Towers. 

The rest of that day was awful. 

No need to recap the repercussions of that day, but I did want to mark this anniversary of an important US history event and say that my prayers today will include those who were most affected by this tragedy and are still grieving. 

Also I want to give my thanks to all the first responders who serve us today. Thank you for what you do. 

Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions. Have a great weekend and get out and ride those bicycles. 

Deconstruction: Part 2

Progress has been made on the wheel project. I managed to get both Surly Extraterrestrials off the Duster rims, remove both TLR rim strips, and then deconstruct the wheels. 

Now that the rims are freed up, I can measure them, measure the hubs, and calculate the spoke lengths. The spokes which came out of the old wheels are actually not bad. I may employ some of them if the measurements agree. 

The rims are in great shape. No dings or big scratches. I do still plan on de-stickering them. I will be ultra-careful with those two TLR rim strips. They are a little delicate along their edges. Fortunately both look reasonably good and reusable. 

That was the big hurdle to get over. Especially removing those tires. That was quite the chore! Once I got past the removing of the tires things went a lot more quickly. 

I'm not sure when I will get to the construction phase at this time. I have to measure everything and figure out spoke lengths. Then I'll have to see what I have in reserve for spokes and decide if I am ordering spokes or not. If an order is necessary, (and I am betting it will be necessary), this will take a bit longer and I may not get the wheels built until later in September. 

But whatever. The deconstruction phase is over. Time to move on. 
 

Deconstruction: Part 1

Well, since I've been getting rained out here I figured I may as well get cracking on with the new wheel build for the Fargo Gen I. "New" as in a new assemblage of older parts I have. The spokes and nipples may be the only new thing I use. 

The rims will be the venerable Bontrager Duster rims. These were off the Trek Sawyer I once had. The hubs will be the old Chris King hubs, the very same hub set I used over a decade ago during the "Mud Year" of 2015 at the DK200. 

The plan will be to do the "Guitar Ted Special" build, which is black spokes on one side, silver on the other, with one wheel having a reverse arrangement from the other. Black spokes will get silver nipples and silver spokes will get black nipples. I know, it sounds weird, but it looks rad - to my eyes - and I have a few wheel sets already built up using this scheme. 

Other details will include removal of the stickers on the rims, getting the hubs checked out inside, and re-using the Bontrager TLR rim strips. Bontrager TLR Rim strips? Yes..... I'll show you. 

But first, I had to begin things by blowing apart the old wheels. Let the deconstruction commence!

Dismounting the Extraterrestrials was no small task. This was due mostly to the TLR rim strip. Dislodging the bead of the tire from the bead channel molded into the TLR rim strip is a chore. Good thing if you flat while riding because it is unlikely the TLR rim strip will let your tire go. Bad if you want to actually remove a tire. 

So, to dislodge the bead from the TLR bead channel, I devised a tool from a Pedros tire lever. The purpose of this was to push the bead over the inner part of the bead channel and into the rim well. It worked! Good thing because I could not roll it off with my hands at all. 

After this, you'd think things would get easier. Nope! Next you have to remove the TLR rim strip to reveal the spoke holes and nipples. You want to do this very carefully. The reason being is that the edges of the rim strip are delicate and it is easy to damage the molded strip. I was able to get it out okay. 

Then all I needed to do was start cleaning things up and move on to the next wheel. But I won't get into all of that here. The next update will show you the rims cleaned up and what my spokes will be for the build. After this, I need to verify the condition of the rear King hub, in particular, and build up the wheels, of course. 

The TLR rim strip in situ.

 

Here the TLR rim strip is removed.

One more thing about the system. This was the first, good tubeless rim system ever made. Everything fit together like puzzle pices, but you were locked into Bontrager stuff. Maybe not necessarily in regard to tires, but the rim, rim strip, and valve were all proprietary technology. Brilliant in design though, and it worked perfect most every time. 

No tape to fail, tires were held securely, and things were serviceable. It's too bad it wasn't an industry wide standard, really. Anyway.... 

Stay tuned. 

Rim Wars: Sometimes The Solution Is Right In Front Of You.

Just the other day 'shiggy person' asked me to see if I had a Surly Extraterrestrial to measure. Well, in fact, I do. 

The wheel set I rode last year for the Ride For Jacob is the original wheel set from a Trek Sawyer I used to have, Because the wheel was spec'ed with a heavy Shimano hub set, I was not too stoked about riding them and ended up throwing various different wheels at that bike until I sold it. 

The ironic bit is that the Sawyer had the Chris King hubs on it when I sold it. But those were offered back to me earlier this year and I bought them to use for a nice wheel set for the Fargo Gen I,

Which....again in a bit of irony..was the bike I used the Bontrager Duster/Shimano hub set on when I did the Ride For Jacob last year. Again, this wheel set hasn't been a favorite of mine but the Duster rims best suited the Extraterrestrials, so I rolled them. 

So, while I was measuring the Extraterrestrial for 'shiggy', (62.63mm @ 19psi, by the way), I realized that I would like this wheel a lot better if the Chris King hubs were laced in their. 

Boom.....

So I think this is the direction I'm going to go in. I'll set up the Dusters with the King hub set. Then The Surly tires will go back on. Problem solved. 

Rim Wars

Image courtesy of Hates Bicycle

So for my Chris King hub set I still have not decided upon rims to build up wheels from them. I was considering carbon, but the prices for those are a bit intimidating from the standpoint of my use case scenario. I mean, this is a bike that is almost twenty years old now! (Fargo Gen I) So, putting on bling-wheels seems a bit too much for me when I think about this bicycle. Making wheels which would be worth more than the rest of the bike seems....not wise. 

So, I have resigned myself to doing a wheel set in aluminum, just to use these Chris King hubs. Earlier in the week I was referred by a commenter to look at Sun/Ringle' Durocd rims. I also am a big fan of Velocity USA's Blunt SS rims. So, I did a compare and contrast with these two choices. They are remarkably similar in some significant ways. 

The Blunt SS

Image courtesy of Velocity USA

I have experience with this rim and it all has been positive. It's a fairly light rim for the inner width at a claimed 425 grams each. These build up nicely and look really good. 

For my uses it would be absolutely fine doing what I'd ask of it. Now, if I were actually mountain biking I would have some reservations. 

The Blunt SS isn't what I would call a rim for really fast, rough riding styles on tough trails. It can be flexy, easily dented, and some say it is problematic doing tubeless tires. (I have never had any issues running Blunt SS's tubeless, so....)

The price for a single Blunt SS 700c rim is $152.00 and these are made in the USA. 

The Sun Duroc 30:

As you can see from the cutaway diagram here, the Sun Duroc 30 is very close in specifications to a Blunt SS. The inner rim width is nearly identical, and in just about every way, the Duroc 30 seems to be analogous to a Blunt SS in the important areas. 

There are two things about the Duroc 30 which distinguish it from the Blunt SS and they are related to each other. 

Firstly, the Duroc 30 is a welded seam rim while the Blunt SS is not. This is a tiny thing in and of itself, but the nod goes to the Duroc here because welded seams can be more durable. Welding can also distort the rim walls, if done poorly, so having not seen any examples of this rim, I cannot say if Sun's production quality is good or no. Based upon other Sun rims I have seen I would guess this is a non-issue. 

The other related thing is weight. A welded seam weighs more than a pin and sleeve one does. So, this bears out as the Duroc 30 is a claimed 465 grams versus the Blunt SS at a claimed 425 grams each. Of course, the Duroc can be heavier just because of its extrusion design also, so we have to account somewhat for this possibility as well. 

The Duroc 30 costs about a hundred bucks each, so a savings of over $100.00 for a pair versus the Velocity product. I do not know where the Duroc is made, but I would hazard a guess that it is not made in the USA. 

Decisions:

I haven't done anything yet, but the Duroc gets some cred from a local rider here I respect, so I would not be afraid to use those rims. The made in USA thing is nice, but at this point spending around $200.00 versus $300.00 or more is a significant difference. One I cannot ignore. 

Soon I will make a decision. What would you do? 

Two Things

Getting Back To That Wheel Project:

Last Spring I received back my old Chris King hub set. I mentioned then I wanted to build these up into wheels for the Fargo Gen I. Then.....

Crickets.

Why? Well, first off I was a bit paralyzed by prices for carbon rims. I can afford them, that isn't the problem. The problem is if I believe they are what I truly need to be spending money on for that bike. 

I still believe Velocity Blunt SS rims would be just fine and do the job well. I probably will end up getting a set. But I did not back then because BRAN then came along and well, I spent a bunch of money getting ready for that. 

Then Summer came along and I got distracted, as one does, by other things. Now we're going into Fall and my mind is settling into what I need to get done before Winter comes along, besides getting the house ready. 

This wheel set build is on the radar. There is a slight chance I go in a different direction than indicated here, but the Blunt SS is the leader in the clubhouse as of now. Unless I can be persuaded otherwise....

What It Is All About:

Let's see..... Gravel Worlds is coming up. I haven't seen a lot about CORE4 this year (?), and then you have a few, smaller events which are fairly local which I've seen some buzz about. Does anyone know who is winning the UCI Gravel series events or the Gravel Earth events? 

I don't see people yakking about those things much at all, not on social media anyway. barely any coverage on the ol' innergoogles either. So.....does anyone really care about these races? 

I have seen a LOT more stuff about rides, small gravel competitions, and bike packing adventures, all non-sanctioned, by the way, than I have any of the "big-time" events. 

When is the cycling industry going to catch on to this? Will they ever? And maybe it doesn't matter. I will say that our local shops, all two of them, are still not engaging with the scene and haven't for years. This is Iowa. Gravel is literally everywhere, yet these shops seemingly are blind to it. I worked at one of them for many years and all that shop cared about was a twice yearly road time trial series that drew a small smattering of locals. 

But gravel cycling? Nah..... Whatever. 

The thing is, gravel cycling is the meat of cycling activities, not some weirdo thing going on out in the country. Well.....some of us are weirdos, yes. But you know what I am getting at here. Gravel is the meat of what is going on and you cannot, as a business, treat it like cole slaw. If you do, it is at your own risk. 

Wheels For Gen I: Hubs Here!

Saturday was the day I received the Chris King hubs back I used to own. Kind of an odd feeling while turning those axles and thinking about all the rides I have done on these hubs. 

They feel great, by the way, and they look fine as well. A nick here or there, but what should one expect from a set of hubs that has been kicking around since 2008 or so?

With this set of hubs now in hand, I can start thinking about some rims. There is one big fork in the road to consider. Which way I go will determine price and wheel overall weight in the end. 

I could go carbon or aluminum. If I go aluminum I'll likely roll with some Velocity Blunt SS rims. I like them. They are sturdy, look good,are a nice width, and there are options for colors, polished, or custom anodized rims. But honestly, I'll probably get black anodized ones if I go aluminum. 

Carbon rims are a different story. Most well known name brands are waaaaaaaay expensive. Then you have the carbon rims from China like Nextie or ICAN which have good reputations and perhaps are better known for the rims they make with other brand names on them. 

Like I said, I have to decide which fork in the road to take. Then I will have to buy two rims, probably some spokes, and get busy. 

Stay tuned....

Wheel Decisions

About three months ago now I was riding the Tamland Two with the Irwin carbon wheel set and I experienced some free hub issues. You can check that post out HERE. Since then that Irwin wheel set has been sitting around and every once in a while while I see it in my shop I start to think about what I can do with the wheels. 

I go back and forth with ideas. I was pretty set on tearing them down to rims, spokes, and hubs on Tuesday but when I went down to take care of that I took one more look at the free hub. See, all along I haven't been able to see why the free hub was not engaging properly at random times. It made no sense. I could see no damage at all, no excessive wear, nothing.

And the end cap I removed to get the free hub body off to inspect things three months ago had been misplaced. gah! So, I dug through my stash of end caps and found some more Irwin compatible ones which got me sorted. I reassembled the free hub, put it back together, and it sounds and feels awesome. gah! x2.... 

I just hate to have to tear something apart if it isn't really necessary, and swapping these rims to new hubs probably will mean buying spokes and nipples and obviously more time and energy. gah! x3!

The Irwin wheels still have tires mounted tubeless to them, so what I think I am going to do is to relegate these wheels to my very local to me test loop. That way, if they fail I can walk back home with no real issues. If they prove to be reliable, well then the problem is solved. Anyway....

Never been used!

Then there is this other wheel set. I have a Velocity disc hub wheel set with Bontrager RXL rim brake rims laced to them. The hubs are disc. I know......weird! Let me explain....

Probably over ten years ago Velocity USA sent me a set of Major Tom disc wheels as payment for advertising on "Gravel Grinder News", the gravel site that morphed out of this blog starting in 2008. There was scuttlebutt going around that a bigger tubular tire for gravel was coming out, but...... I was ready with the wheels, and the tires were vaporware. Oh well....

Now I had this wheel set with no inclinations of running tubular tires ever. I ended up swapping the rims out with the current Bontrager RXL Scandium aluminum rims which I picked up on close-out from Trek. Then I figured I'd use them on my Black Mountain Cycles "Orange Crush", but right about that time I decided that the Orange Crush was going back to a single speed soon. So the wheels hung from the ceiling in the shop, and I have never used them. 

I had thought about using the hubs with the Irwin carbon rims, and maybe that is what will end up happening, but I don't know..... Decisions between choices. Never fear! I'll likely come up with more ideas of what to do which will freeze my situation for the foreseeable future. 

I'm good a6t doing that!

Two Things

Image from SRAM promo video

SRAM's New Maven Brakes:

Checked the calendar and yes - it is not April 1st! SRAM really did just make a new brake with mineral oil as the fluid instead of DOT brake fluid. (To be fair, they had an obscure brake ahead of this that was also mineral oil based)

Maven, the new design from SRAM for their DH, Enduro, and Trail categories, is a four piston brake with a huge, chunky looking caliper and a claim of a 50% increase in power over their previous Code R brakes. 

Obviously the main talking point will undoubtedly be that SRAM has used a Maxima made mineral oil for this brake and have forsaken DOT fluid. (Older models are still offered in DOT fluid, by the way) This fluid is very Jello green in color and is claimed to be the only mineral oil that will work with these brakes due to a special proprietary piston seal material SRAM is using on the Maven brakes. 

SRAM's promotions for this brake seems to poke a finger at Shimano with verbiage to the effect that "heat isn't a bad thing" for brakes. (Shimano has for years used "Ice Tech" and other cold-type nomenclature for their brake systems) Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know that Shimano ever said "heat was bad for brakes". They wanted to reduce heat and control it, but they were never trying to get rid of all heat. That is silly. Maybe SRAM was poking fun at another brand's messaging. I don't know. 

SRAM is saying that they have an optimal temperature range for this brake. They kind of dance around how cold weather affects these brakes, and they infer that you'll need to get these brakes hot, or they won't be what they are supposed to be. How that translates to rides that have longer intervals off the brakes is a question unanswered as of now. 

The Maven comes in an Ultimate, Silver, and Bronze level. The Ultimate and Silver brakes are fully-featured, the difference is that the Ultimate has titanium hardware in the caliper body.  The Bronze level drops the bite adjustment feature, but otherwise is similar. Prices are Ultimate - $300.00/brake, Silver - $265.00/brake, and Bronze - $185.00/brake. 

Comments: Ever since SRAM has made hydraulic brakes, mechanics have groused about their bleeding procedures and laughed at their various brake fails in terms of designs. But above all, mechanics hated working with DOT fluid. The move to mineral oil will be welcomed in that sense. However; as anyone with any kind of bike shop experience would tell you, it is no surprise that the mineral oil is proprietary and that the equipment to service these brakes will all have to be purchased by shops for their mechanics. That's been the same since SRAM has made brakes, pretty much. Always with something else you HAD to buy to work on their latest brake. 

But one thing that has not changed, apparently, is how difficult it is to bleed these and set them up initially. That's been a SRAM hallmark for their hydraulic brakes since forever. 

But consumers will likely dig these brakes and they will be spec'ed on TONS of new mountain bikes, (as long as SRAM doesn't get a recall ding with this new brake). Oh! And E-MTB's will definitely see this brake spec often as well. Hope SRAM has a hit on their hands here because I would love to see them ditch DOT fluid for their entire hydraulic brake line up. 

Honeman Flyer Update:

My front wheel to match my rear wheel has landed at G-Ted Headquarters for the new single speed gravel bike build. This might just be the oddest wheel set I have as it was built by two different people nearly two years apart from each other.

See, back in 2020, parts were hard to come by as the pandemic made cycling ultra-popular. I had one Velocity USA Blunt SS, and that was all we could get. I wanted to score a new Paul Components WORD Disc hub with a 12mm through axle though, but they weren't available. So I put one on back order. Then, finally, in January of 2022, I got an email asking if I still wanted the hub, and I did, so by March of 2022, two years ago,  I built a rear wheel for my Twin Six Standard Rando v2. 

I kludged a front wheel out of the original front wheel that came with my Nobel GX5 bike. It looked similar enough that it was hard to notice the difference, and I probably would have kept things that way for a long, long time, but then....

I got that GRX Limited Edition group set and used it on the Standard Rando v2. That sent the single speed, mismatched wheel set off in the corner of the G-Ted Lab. When the chance to get the Honeman Flyer bike became a reality, that old rear was pegged for the project, but now I felt I may as well finally get the front wheel to match.

Signed by the builder.

I contacted my friend and wheel-building professional, Ben Witt of Heath Creek Cycles, to consult him on a possible front wheel build to match the older Paul rear. Ben mentioned that he could order me the parts and I could build it, but he also offered me the option of having him build it up. 

The thought of having my friend build up my front wheel was appealing to me. It will allow me to have a bit of Ben along with me on every ride of that bike. But it is odd to think that the complete, matched wheel set has taken this long to accomplish and was done by two different wheel builders. 

And we even managed to get the "Guitar Ted Special" spoke pattern down tight. Alternating sides with black and silver spokes with each color spoke featuring an opposite colored nipple in brass. I was stoked that Ben would accommodate me in that way. 

 So, another piece of the puzzle has landed. I think I have a crankset I can use, at least two options would look okay here. I have a head set. I have brakes. I have the levers. I have seat posts and stems. I probably will go with a Luxy Bar. I have one in silver. So, yeah.... I have a bunch of what I need to build the bike up once the frame and fork arrive. 

The waiting game begins......

Friday News And Views

The new SOMA Gullwing Bar. Image courtesy of SOMA.

 New "Alt-Bar" From SOMA:

Ever since I have been writing this blog, (17 years, but who's counting!), I've been into the 'alt-bar' thing. So when I see a new one, I always check it out. The latest weirdo bar is from SOMA and is called the "Gullwing Bar". 

This one isn't weird because of its shape, which has been done pretty similarly by others. No, this one is different because of the shape AND that it is drop-bar control standard only. 

That means- don't try this with flat bar controls. So, as with many alt-bars, the question is always, "Why?!" Read the link above for SOMA's take on it. Basically it is an answer for those who don't like drops, have a bike with drops, and want to convert to a flat bar without having to buy new levers, shifters, and probably a derailluer or two. 

Comments: I see the reason why, and I get it, but my initial reaction is "mustache bar". I mean, essentially this is a mustache bar variant. That's fine, but functionally this bar only really varies the extension angle and otherwise it doesn't really do much for me. 

It does offer some unique hand positions and it probably would be great for some folks. So, a good alt bar here, just not one I see as being something I'd want for any bikes I have. I'd strongly recommend that if you think this looks interesting that a Whiskey Winston Bar might be even better from the standpoint of being able to use MTB or road controls and you can put MTB grips on that bar. Otherwise, the Gullwing Bar is another interesting choice. 

Wheelbased showed this image by VitalMTB on their Instagram.

SRAM To Debut New "Hangarless" Rear Derailleur:

This appeared in my Instagram feed last week from @wheelbased. (A link to the Wheelbased site is on the sidebar when that blog posts new material) 

The image, showing a new design by SRAM for a rear derailleur, features a new way to attach the rear derailleur to a frame by using a hollow bolt, a yoked upper derailleur body, and the wheel's through axle pierces the derailleur mount and frame. 

The design essentially makes a yoked hangar part of the rear derailleur itself which vastly increases rear derailleur stability leading to crisper shifting and less "ghost shifts". However; you might ask yourself, "Doesn't this put the frame and derailleur at risk of being destroyed in a crash or by trail obstacles? You would be correct if you think, "yes". 

But shifting stability and performance is critical now more than ever with the finicky nature and narrow performance window of 11, 12, and 13 speed drive trains. Consider also that rear derailleur hangars rarely break, they bend, and rear derailleurs which get the least amount out of shape are now for the bin.  

So, maybe you would trash a frame using this system, but more than likely you are going to destroy the derailleur. That's a sacrifice many are willing to make for better and more stable shifts on 11,12, and 13 speed drive trains. Plus, hangars are expensive anyway, weak, and don't really do what they were meant to do anymore. 

But the question no one is asking is "How did we get here?". Well, using really big cogs, wide range cassettes, and more gears on there- that's how. Really..... But go further. How did we get here? By accepting that front derailleurs weren't a good thing and that 1X is  "better". That's how this happened, really. 

Make of that what you will.

Controversy In Women's Elite Level Racing At Gravel Worlds:

Earlier this week I found a thread in the Riding Gravel site's forum dealing with an issue with the racing at the front of the Women's field at Gravel Worlds. To be honest, this is an issue, and will continue to be an issue, until we make elite level Men's and Women's events separate from all other gravel racing. 

I referred to this again in my post earlier in the week this week as well. No need to tread all that ground again, But, it is apparent that what Pro and Elite racers need and what the "95%" of the rest of us do not want is what is being described in this blog post from the second place Women's Pro finisher at Gravel Worlds. We don't want to see team cars, team support, team leaders deriding other riders, or heckling them, or causing doubt to gain advantage over racers. We don't need a "sanctioning body" to know that all that is wrong. 

We don't need a sanctioning body, but we do need strong leadership at the time of the events. We need immediate officiating, and yeah.....that's really a big ask when you have thousands of racers. But again- rules are nothing unless they are enforced, and if you cannot do that, then don't have that big of an event- or change your event to not have that sort of competitor, or find a way to make what you are doing work. My viewpoint is that there can be a way to figure this out. First off, much of the bickering is coming from mixing fast men with women's fields who are using those "wheels" to gain an advantage. So, separating them (different courses, different days for the events) is what needs to happen and would mitigate that issue. Secondly, supporting yourself means you carry it in- you carry it out. No hand-ups, and no team cars, (which- by the way- was explicitly mentioned in the run up to Gravel Worlds.) Officiating that with a separated Pro/Elite event would be a LOT easier than running several event distances concurrently with thousands of participants.

Tragedy At Vermont Overland Results In Kenyan Cyclist's Death:

 Saturday a high-speed crash resulted in the death of  Suleiman "Sule" Kangangi. He was a member of Team AMANI who were here in the USA on a swing of gravel events which the Vermont Overland was to be the last of before returning home to Kenya. Suleiman Kangangi was 33 years of age. 

He had participated in the SBT GRVL and Gravel Worlds before the Vermont Overland event. No further details were offered on the incident which caused Mr. Kangangi to succumb to his injuries. 

Comments: I am deeply saddened and I feel for all parties involved in this incident. Of course, my heartfelt condolences go out to Mr. Kangangi's family and friends. This is not a thing any of use want to think about happening to anyone in the gravel scene.

I've spoken of the fear I lived with that I would be presiding over an event where this sort of thing might happen, and my thoughts go out to those who run the Vermont Overland event. My hope is that everyone- the event organizers, the family and friends of Mr. Kangangi, and those close to this will find peace and comfort. 

An example of Velocity USA's "Oil Slick". Image courtesy of Velocity USA.

Velocity USA Announces Oil Slick Color Options:

Oil Slick color options were being offered quite a bit on some MTB components pre-pandemic. That sort of went away for a bit, but apparently Velocity USA is thinking that Oil Slick color is a thing again.

Only offered on complete wheel set builds, Oil Slick can be had on hubs, spokes, and brass or alloy nipples too. 

Of course, all that faux-petroleum light bending comes at a cost. You'll spend an extra 100 bucks for hubs, 28-38 bucks extra for spokes, and an extra 13-14 bucks for nipples. You can get nips, or spokes, or hubs only in Oil Slick, but again- only on custom wheel builds from Velocity. 

That's it for this week! Have a great weekend! Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!

Friday News And Views

The new SOMA Gullwing Bar. Image courtesy of SOMA.

 New "Alt-Bar" From SOMA:

Ever since I have been writing this blog, (17 years, but who's counting!), I've been into the 'alt-bar' thing. So when I see a new one, I always check it out. The latest weirdo bar is from SOMA and is called the "Gullwing Bar". 

This one isn't weird because of its shape, which has been done pretty similarly by others. No, this one is different because of the shape AND that it is drop-bar control standard only. 

That means- don't try this with flat bar controls. So, as with many alt-bars, the question is always, "Why?!" Read the link above for SOMA's take on it. Basically it is an answer for those who don't like drops, have a bike with drops, and want to convert to a flat bar without having to buy new levers, shifters, and probably a derailluer or two. 

Comments: I see the reason why, and I get it, but my initial reaction is "mustache bar". I mean, essentially this is a mustache bar variant. That's fine, but functionally this bar only really varies the extension angle and otherwise it doesn't really do much for me. 

It does offer some unique hand positions and it probably would be great for some folks. So, a good alt bar here, just not one I see as being something I'd want for any bikes I have. I'd strongly recommend that if you think this looks interesting that a Whiskey Winston Bar might be even better from the standpoint of being able to use MTB or road controls and you can put MTB grips on that bar. Otherwise, the Gullwing Bar is another interesting choice. 

Wheelbased showed this image by VitalMTB on their Instagram.

SRAM To Debut New "Hangarless" Rear Derailleur:

This appeared in my Instagram feed last week from @wheelbased. (A link to the Wheelbased site is on the sidebar when that blog posts new material) 

The image, showing a new design by SRAM for a rear derailleur, features a new way to attach the rear derailleur to a frame by using a hollow bolt, a yoked upper derailleur body, and the wheel's through axle pierces the derailleur mount and frame. 

The design essentially makes a yoked hangar part of the rear derailleur itself which vastly increases rear derailleur stability leading to crisper shifting and less "ghost shifts". However; you might ask yourself, "Doesn't this put the frame and derailleur at risk of being destroyed in a crash or by trail obstacles? You would be correct if you think, "yes". 

But shifting stability and performance is critical now more than ever with the finicky nature and narrow performance window of 11, 12, and 13 speed drive trains. Consider also that rear derailleur hangars rarely break, they bend, and rear derailleurs which get the least amount out of shape are now for the bin.  

So, maybe you would trash a frame using this system, but more than likely you are going to destroy the derailleur. That's a sacrifice many are willing to make for better and more stable shifts on 11,12, and 13 speed drive trains. Plus, hangars are expensive anyway, weak, and don't really do what they were meant to do anymore. 

But the question no one is asking is "How did we get here?". Well, using really big cogs, wide range cassettes, and more gears on there- that's how. Really..... But go further. How did we get here? By accepting that front derailleurs weren't a good thing and that 1X is  "better". That's how this happened, really. 

Make of that what you will.

Controversy In Women's Elite Level Racing At Gravel Worlds:

Earlier this week I found a thread in the Riding Gravel site's forum dealing with an issue with the racing at the front of the Women's field at Gravel Worlds. To be honest, this is an issue, and will continue to be an issue, until we make elite level Men's and Women's events separate from all other gravel racing. 

I referred to this again in my post earlier in the week this week as well. No need to tread all that ground again, But, it is apparent that what Pro and Elite racers need and what the "95%" of the rest of us do not want is what is being described in this blog post from the second place Women's Pro finisher at Gravel Worlds. We don't want to see team cars, team support, team leaders deriding other riders, or heckling them, or causing doubt to gain advantage over racers. We don't need a "sanctioning body" to know that all that is wrong. 

We don't need a sanctioning body, but we do need strong leadership at the time of the events. We need immediate officiating, and yeah.....that's really a big ask when you have thousands of racers. But again- rules are nothing unless they are enforced, and if you cannot do that, then don't have that big of an event- or change your event to not have that sort of competitor, or find a way to make what you are doing work. My viewpoint is that there can be a way to figure this out. First off, much of the bickering is coming from mixing fast men with women's fields who are using those "wheels" to gain an advantage. So, separating them (different courses, different days for the events) is what needs to happen and would mitigate that issue. Secondly, supporting yourself means you carry it in- you carry it out. No hand-ups, and no team cars, (which- by the way- was explicitly mentioned in the run up to Gravel Worlds.) Officiating that with a separated Pro/Elite event would be a LOT easier than running several event distances concurrently with thousands of participants.

Tragedy At Vermont Overland Results In Kenyan Cyclist's Death:

 Saturday a high-speed crash resulted in the death of  Suleiman "Sule" Kangangi. He was a member of Team AMANI who were here in the USA on a swing of gravel events which the Vermont Overland was to be the last of before returning home to Kenya. Suleiman Kangangi was 33 years of age. 

He had participated in the SBT GRVL and Gravel Worlds before the Vermont Overland event. No further details were offered on the incident which caused Mr. Kangangi to succumb to his injuries. 

Comments: I am deeply saddened and I feel for all parties involved in this incident. Of course, my heartfelt condolences go out to Mr. Kangangi's family and friends. This is not a thing any of use want to think about happening to anyone in the gravel scene.

I've spoken of the fear I lived with that I would be presiding over an event where this sort of thing might happen, and my thoughts go out to those who run the Vermont Overland event. My hope is that everyone- the event organizers, the family and friends of Mr. Kangangi, and those close to this will find peace and comfort. 

An example of Velocity USA's "Oil Slick". Image courtesy of Velocity USA.

Velocity USA Announces Oil Slick Color Options:

Oil Slick color options were being offered quite a bit on some MTB components pre-pandemic. That sort of went away for a bit, but apparently Velocity USA is thinking that Oil Slick color is a thing again.

Only offered on complete wheel set builds, Oil Slick can be had on hubs, spokes, and brass or alloy nipples too. 

Of course, all that faux-petroleum light bending comes at a cost. You'll spend an extra 100 bucks for hubs, 28-38 bucks extra for spokes, and an extra 13-14 bucks for nipples. You can get nips, or spokes, or hubs only in Oil Slick, but again- only on custom wheel builds from Velocity. 

That's it for this week! Have a great weekend! Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!

Thoughts On Wheel Vibration Damping

Berd spokes: Do they actually make the wheel more comfortable?

 Over this past week I got a question in the comments section regarding wheel vibration damping and if that was really a thing, or just a bunch of speculative, traditional, accepted bicycle lore that, in reality, doesn't exist. 

I do not claim to be a scientist, but I have read a lot of reports, listened to a lot of wise wheel people, and I have built hundreds of bicycle wheels. I have tested some of the most exotic combinations of materials for spokes and I have ridden some really bad designs. 

So, with my experience, learned over 30 years of being a mechanic, and with my lifetime of riding bicycles over 50 years now, I offer these thoughts and opinions on the subject. I'm not trying to sell you anything, and I am not trying to sell anyone else's stuff here. The following text is just my opinions on this subject, plain and simple. 

First of all, the dynamics of how a wheel system works might surprise you. I know when I learned what was actually going on with a rider on a bicycle when it comes to how a wheel works, I was a bit surprised. I'm not going to delve into all of that here, but I strongly recommend that you check out the subject. You could do worse than start here and in that short video you will see that there is a LOT of nerding out one can do on the subject of wheels. 

I'm sticking to wheel vibration damping characteristics and whether or not those are real or imagined. First off, what is 'damping' in terms of vibrations? (Hint- click the link) Essentially, in terms of what I am thinking about practically, I need to erase those pesky vibrations from crushed rock roads from buzzing my hands, feet, and rear end so I don't get fatigued as quickly, or go numb because my body is absorbing- or damping- that energy. 

The first line of defense: Your tires make the biggest difference of all in ride quality.

Obviously, we cannot discuss how a wheel damps vibrations, or even if it can, without discussing tires, because, well, no one should be riding on bare rims. We all are using tires. So that has to be included here. This is your first, and most effective part of the wheel system when it comes to damping vibrations. Tire air pressure is also critical. 

And again- I can write about that all day. But you must understand that how tires can work for you is WAY more important here than how the rest of the wheel will affect the ride. What a wheel might be able to add to the ride feel, vibration damping, and overall joy of your experience is minimized by how you choose a tire and how you choose to run it. (air pressure, tubed, tubeless) 

What is left over in terms of wheel ride feel is what vibrations are coming through the wheel system and then getting transferred into the fork/frame. Different materials will attenuate those frequencies, but they will not eliminate them. For instance, lower amplitude vibrations often are going to affect you as a rider no matter what you do, save running suspension components. But the good news is that those types of vibrations are not really the ones that knock you out so much as the high frequency ones do, which in my experience can be mostly attenuated out of the ride feel on a bicycle.(And not necessarily by using a wheel solution, by the way.)

The FLO Cycling wheels appeared too stiff- but were exactly the opposite of stiff.

So, to get rid of that energy we call vibration you need to dissipate it or absorb it. Dissipation of energy typically is a situation where something turns that energy into heat. Something typically has to move. Spokes don't typically 'move' per se', not in the traditional sense. They tension and lose tension, and they vibrate, at least steel spokes do. They are great at transferring vibration, and not so great at dissipating energy. Rims are not usually an ideal place to have vertical deflection, because - in a traditional rim design, that loads and unloads spokes even more which can lead to premature failures. Ideally, we don't want any rim deflection in a traditional wheel build, although- obviously- there is some. (See video linked in 4th paragraph)  

So, your carbon rim with typical steel spokes is not going to have a lot of vibration damping effect because it is designed to be stiff as all get-out. Especially so if it has low spoke count design. So where can we see a rim/spoke/hub set up that does have this vibration-eating quality? Box section rims? Interestingly, a study done on those wheels traditionally thought to be cobblestone dominating wheels, found them to be stiffer than modern wheels over cobbles! So, maybe that old saw that box section rims had some magical 'give' to them is just an old racers tale. 

Okay, so what could work? Well, a rim that actually deformed and damped vibrations without affecting the spokes. Or, spokes that actually stretched and compressed. Are there such things? Yes, there are. 

I tested a set of wheels from FLO Cycling with an aero profile, and while that is a whole 'nuther subject as well, the main benefit, in my opinion, was how the cross section of the rim worked. These were deep section wheels with the spokes attached at the innermost diameter of the rim, (think- at the pointy end towards the hub), and the deep section was kind of a bulged out, triangular shape in profile up to the wide rim bed. This "bulged out" section made a hollow interior. This allowed FLO Cycling to thin out those wall sections to where they actually flexed outward a bit when riding, and rougher surfaces activated this hysteresis (think like a tire deformation over a road surface) and that actually does something for you. Now keep in mind, the spokes are not a part of that section of the wheel, so this is why it can work. 

Berd spokes are woven fibers, and stretch like a rope.

I also tested, (at the same time period in 2020, ironically) a set of wheels which featured the amazing Berd fiber spokes. These woven spokes stretch and deform like a rope might do, and so they can also act in a similar way by hysteresis to damp vibrations and again- I could feel this. It was an attenuation of different frequencies than the FLO wheel set, but it was actually doing something a rider could benefit from. In a bit less dramatic way, the Spinergy GX and GXX wheels also do this. Not surprisingly those have fiber based spokes also.

So, in these instances, at least, where radically different design and material approaches were applied to wheel design, I think that you can expect a vibration damping benefit. However; when it comes to designs where the end result is more traditional, I have to raise an eyebrow here. 

While there may be some degree of vibration damping going on with more traditional wheel design models, it is minimal, at best, and your tire choice and the way that you set that tire up is going to have far, far more impact than the wheel will on vibration damping. I just don't see a wheel, in the traditional bicycle design sense, as being much of a benefit in this case. I think you have to look to these exotic solutions for any significant vibration damping effects. 

And then again, you have vibration damping handle bars, grips, saddles, stems, and gloves, bib shorts, and on and on. Bicycle fit is a huge thing here as well. There is just so much you can look at and do for yourself to find your "happy place". So, don't get lost in the weeds in wheel design, that is, unless that's your thing to nerd-out on. 

So, those are my thoughts, in general, on whether or not you can get a wheel to be a vibration damping device. Certainly, every wheel does this to a degree. But does that matter when the tire can be such a better way to get there? The only times I see that question being answered differently than "No" is where you have solutions like FLO Cycling and Berd. (And to a lesser extent- Spinergy PBO spokes) Then, yes, you are getting what you are looking for in a significant way. Those aren't the only solutions, I am sure, but those are the ones I am most familiar with that "do something" and are not just marketing-speak. 

Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!