Fixin' A Wheel

The Tamland with the temporary wheel

 Last Summer I was going round and round with my Tamland's Roval wheels and figured out that the noise I was hearing was some of the spokes getting loose due to unwinding nipples. 

I temporarily solved the issue by using an old wheel I had sitting around. However; I wanted to save that Roval wheel somehow and I thought maybe rebuilding it would be the way to go. 

However, straight pull spokes are expensive, and buying a minimum of 32 of them, (what one wheel would need) was going to be costly. So, since the spokes were really not the issue here, I decided that maybe I had nipples that would work to replace the red alloy DT Swiss nipples the wheel had originally. 

I searched for some brass DT Swiss nipples I knew that I had but there were only 26 nipples in that little box. Hmm.... I started digging through my stash of wheel stuff and I found these red alloy nipples I had saved for years. They had come from a wheel off a Raleigh Rush Hour track bike. If I recall correctly we were tasked to remove all the alloy nipples for the customer right away when the bike was purchased and replace them with brass nipples and different spokes. Anyway, I hadn't found a use for them all these years. 

Oddball red alloy nipples.

As I recalled these nipples were weird. They would not thread on Wheelsmith spokes as they had a slightly different thread pitch. I usually use Wheelsmith spokes, so that was maybe why I still had not found a home for these red nipples. 

I had no good idea what the spokes were in the Roval wheel but my guess was DT Swiss. (And no - I did not check the head for a stamp) I grabbed a red nipple half expecting it to not work when hey! It went on!

Now I have plenty of these nipples, so I started going through the Roval wheel one spoke at a time. Unwinding the old nipple, putting Wheelsmith Spoke Prep on the threads, and then installing with the red alloy nipples from the old Rush Hour track bike. 

The new nipples are longer, which I guess is 'good', assuming that the nipple has a bit more support. The thing is, the old, I assume DT Swiss nipples, had a hex head inside the rim portion that was hidden from view so the support thing may be a wash. 

Straight pull spokes are a bit weird because they usually have to pierce a thicker "flange" so they tend to be a bit longer than you might expect. These are 300mm and 302mm in length for this rear wheel application. 

Plus, they can spin while you are tightening up the spoke nipple. There is no "J" bend to work against, so I have to kind of tension them up by applying sideways pressure which jambs the nail head and helps prevent the spoke from spinning until you get enough tension for that to hold the spoke immobile. 

While I have two tensionometers, I am doing initial tensioning by plucking the spokes and matching pitch. I'll go through and do a final tensioning with the tensionometer at the end. But in my experience, it probably will need only very minor adjustment. 

'Spose I should do some cleaning too.

This will save the rear wheel, use the spokes I have without having to purchase new ones, and get this wheel back on the Tamland again. 

It is important to save this wheel because I don't have much for quick release wheels anymore and less that are suitable for a gravel application. These are pretty light wheels as well as being thematically similar in color scheme to the Tamland, so they kind of look at home on that bike. Those red painted DT Swiss Aerolite spokes are definitely unique! 

So, that's but one of the Winter projects I have in mind to do this Winter. I'll be busting out more as the season rolls along. Hopefully I get around to everything I have in mind to do. That will depend on the weather we get, of course. 

Stay tuned.....

Friday News And Views

Coros Dura GPS computer. (Image courtesy of Coros)

Time to Navigate Through Another FN&V!

Coros Finally Unveils The Dura GPS Computer:

After teasing this GPS device since April the Coros Dura finally has been unveiled. This new entry in the GPS device market for bicycles has a big claim and looks to unseat your Garmin, Wahoo, and Hammerhead GPS devices from your handlebars. Is it really a contender? 

Well, Coros claims that with all systems on, and with no benefit from the solar charger, (more on that in a minute) you can squeeze 70 hours out of the device for run time. They claim that you can extend that to 120 hours, still without using the solar recharging function. Pretty impressive if true, and if you've already seen DC Rainmaker's review, it probably isn't quite there yet.

As stated, there is a solar recharging function. Coros claims that in full Sunlight, a rider going out for an hour will gain 2 hours of battery time. Again, very impressive. But that solar function comes at the cost of  space on your handlebar. (And the recharge rate hasn't been verified by independent reviewers yet.)

According to my quick measurements of my Hammerhead Karoo 2 and Wahoo Elemnt ROAM sitting here, the Dura is larger both in length and width than those two computers. The touch-screen of the Dura falls in between that of the Wahoo and Hammerhead with the Hammerhead edging out the Dura by just a hair. 

The Dura combines the touch-screen with a dial as well, so I'm not sure how the user interface will be here, (Again - not the greatest yet) but all this comes at a fairly reasonable price of $249.00 USD. Coros is taking pre-orders for July delivery now. By the way, the Dura has a lot more value if you also buy into the Coros smartwatch ecosystem. So, if you have not chosen a path in regard to a GPS device, this may alter your decision. Might want to wait until the bugs get worked out first though.

What do you think? Let me know in the comments. By the way, I'll have an update on my Wahoo experience coming soon. Stay tuned....

Gravel Worlds Announces Live Coverage Of 2024 event: 

From the press release:

"For the first time in the event’s 15-year history, the Garmin Gravel Worlds gravel road bicycle race will feature live-streamed video.

2024 Garmin Gravel Worlds event coverage will begin before the Men’s Pro 150-mile start Saturday, August 24, and end after the final rider has finished late into Saturday evening. The live coverage will include lead and follow motorcycles for both the Men’s and Women’s Pro fields, as well as a fifth camera focused on riders deeper in the pack. There will also be live commentating from beginning to end. The live stream video will be free for viewers worldwide.

Thanks to expanded sponsorship from Goodlife Brands, the event has also added $10,000 to its Women’s Pro prize purse, while adding a fresh twist to the racing. The first twenty Pro Women to arrive at the second race checkpoint ahead of riders from the general race field, which starts 25 minutes later, will receive $500, regardless of where they finish the race."

Gravel Worlds will employ staggered start times, much like Unbound has, for thge event which is scheduled to take place on August, 21 - 25, 2024 in Lincoln, Nebraska from their recently announced new starting area. 

Other recent Gravel Worlds news can be seen HERE and HERE.

Have You Heard About This?

I was sent an email on Wednesday informing me that some ultra-distance cyclists would be coming through the area soon. Like right down my local bike trail! 

Apparently it is all around a race called The Great American Wheel Race. Here's the description from the registration page for the event:

"The 2024 inaugural Great American Wheel Race is a 3,600 mile self-supported race that begins at the landmark Seattle Space Needle on June 9, 2024, and ends at the Washington Monument in Washington D.C. This fabulous and scenic route across the U.S. utilizes established Great American Rail-Trails across the U.S. while linking other bike trails and the safest less traveled roads possible. The route consists of gravel paths, paved paths, gravel and paved roadways, with a goal to be separated from vehicle traffic as much as possible with gentle grades. Come “Get Some” and enjoy this phenomenal race crossing the U.S. from the West Coast to the East Coast."

You can "dot watch" this event, but for whatever reason, the tracking page on the event site is not functioning. However; THIS ONE on Bikepacking.com does work. I'm going to try to see if I can intercept a racer or two on their way down through here. Stay tuned.... 

Image courtesy of Hope Tech.

Hope Tech Offers Durable Gravel Wheel Set:

Often times we all get caught up in the latest aero, carbon fiber, light weight wheel set for gravel and I even can forget about the riders that aren't looking for that. Thankfully companies like Hope Tech from the uK haven't forgotten that some folks would like a wheel set that they can actually ride on without having to worry about weight limits, durability, and still have some nice features. 

Hope offers up the RX24 wheel set for your consideration. I thought it was interesting that this wheel set can be ordered up with 32 spoke hubs and rims. That's getting rarer to find these days as what constitutes a "high spoke count" wheel in pre-builts now days is 28 holes, maybe, with 24 hole rims being the average anymore. 

The rims are 24mm inner width, great for most gravel tires. (Hope recommends up to a 60mm tire) Plus the total system weight (rider and gear) is 284lbs. That's not going to cover everybody, but it is better than a lot of the bling carbon wheels will allow. 

You also get the reliable, rebuildable Hope hub here, which I have ridden in the older Pro 4  form, and can vouch that they do well. But again, Hope does support their hubs with parts and even their legacy hubs are still supported. 

Prices are reasonable. Depending on spec you'll spend somewhere around $600.00 - $800.00 USD. Check them out here.
 

Guitar Ted Podcast Update:

We have a new podcasts up now and it is about the evolution of gravel bikes and how they are not really innovating anything. That one went up last week. You can listen to it HERE. Then N.Y. Roll and I decided to hit up another episode before he vacates the area for New York for a couple of weeks.

I may be putting out a solo podcast yet today at some point, so if you see another episode up, you'll know I decided to do that. Otherwise it may be a while before the next episode is out unless I can get an interview I've been thinking about doing. We will see.

That's a wrap for this week. Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions! Get out and ride those bikes! The days are getting shorter starting now!

Using Old 29"er Wheels For Gravel

Older 29"er wheels make excellent gravel bike wheels.

While I was contemplating what to do with my wheel problem concerning the Raleigh Tamland Two, I remembered that my friend in SoCal, Grannygear, had written an article about how old 29"er wheels from around 2010 make great gravel bike wheels. 

The wheels I ended up putting on the Tamland are a great example of this idea. Plus, they came off a bike Grannygear had, so that is a bit ironic. They are Specialized Roval carbon wheels with DT Swiss hubs. 

So, what makes a wheel set like this so desirable for gravel? There are a few reasons that this might make sense for anyone to seek out.

First of all, they likely will not cost much, if you can track some down. Not long after 2010, MTB standards changed to a wider, "Boost" axle width which is not compatible with older wheel sets. This made a lot of really nice, top-tier wheels, like these Rovals, obsolete for current MTB's. 

But since gravel bikes went with the same standard as MTB was back around 2010, those "obsolete 29"er wheels" are perfect candidates for a gravel bike. Additionally, this was a time when many wheel sets were convertible from Quick Release to Through-Axle standard, which allows easy fitment to most any gravel bike whether they are QR or thru-axle.

The current look of the Tamland Two.

Finally, most early 29"er wheels were fairly narrow. A "wide" rim in the late 2000's was 28mm inner rim width and many, like these Rovals, were 24mm, or even 22mm inner rim width. Nowadays a 30mm inner rim width is "Cross-Country racing" width for a MTB!

But almost any of those older rims are prime candidates for gravel usage today. Take a look at the specs for most of today's crop of gravel wheels and you'll see that 25mm inner rim width is where most of those wheels land. A lot of 29"er wheels back ten years ago to fifteen years ago were right at that width, or at 23mm, which is still great for gravel travel. 

As long as the wheels weren't abused, you should consider taking a look at some older 29"er wheels to lighten up the old gravel rig, or maybe use as a race wheel set. The Rovals I have now could easily be a racing wheel set with the carbon rims, aero spokes, and excellent DT Swiss hubs bringing the heat. I say they could be good racing wheels, because the motor.....eh! That could use some work! Ha!

If you are using some late 2000's/early twenty-teens 29"er wheels in your gravel bike, let me know in the comments.

The Guitar Ted Wheel Series: Introduction

Introduction:

The Guitar Ted Wheel Series was inspired by a recent thread on social media where I saw one of myriads of "what _____are best" questions. Typically those have to do with tires. I don't touch those with a ten foot pole. Tires are something you just cannot talk sense about with cyclists, so it would be useless to even try that here.

However; I saw a thread on wheels. I won't repeat the question here, but what it asked will be covered in this series. I was inspired to share my years of knowledge concerning wheels and what they can do, cannot do, and the myths behind them which may help someone reading this cut through the fog and find the solution that is right for them. All specifically concerning riding on crushed rock and dirt roads, but you could extrapolate much of what I will share across any wheels for bicycles. 

Some of the topics I will discuss include the following, in no particular order:

• Materials for rims, spokes, and hubs.
• Hubs: Bearings, free hubs, axle types, and more.
• Spokes: Types of spokes and spoking patterns, including nipples.
• Rims: carbon vs Aluminum. Tubeless vs Tubed. Rim width and its effects on tires. Aero and its importance for gravel riding. 
• Wheels: Cheap vs Expensive. Does "vertical compliance" in wheels exist? Why is a stiff rim desirable for gravel riding? 
• You, your riding style, and wheels: What wheels will work for you? 

I will also be answering questions along the way. If you have any now, please submit them via the comments, or you can email me @ g.ted.productions@gmail.com if you'd rather do it that way. I may even bring in some "expert" opinions from other wheel builders into this as necessary. 

Resume': So, as far as my experience goes, I have been building wheels since 1994. I have built wheels for customers in a retail setting, repaired wheels, and worked on about every type of wheel you could imagine. I laced up my first set of carbon wheels back in 2005. I have worked on high end hubs from DT Swiss, Hope, Chris King, Industry 9, and more. I have experience with several types of spokes including bladed, aluminum, and fiber based spokes. 

I also have had the privilege of riding several different types of wheels ranging from cheap, OEM types to high-end, uber-expensive, exotic wheels and everything in between. Aero, wide MTB, narrow roadie rims, and even wheels with composite spokes and spokes made out of threads. 

I've used and built wheels for myself to be ridden on gravel, roads, and for mountain biking. Loaded, lightweight, and standard usage. 

All that to say that I believe I have a vast amount of wheel experience and wisdom to share. But as I say, I am not above asking others about questions you readers may pose nor am I against bringing in other's wisdom here. 

Format: Each post in the series will be on a focused subject, but keep in mind wheels are a system and you really cannot change one thing - say spoke materials - and not have an effect on the rest of the wheel and how it will perform. 

The series will run concurrently with skips to miss "FN&V" days or breaking news. I hope that you enjoy this and as always, Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!

Thoughts On Wheel Vibration Damping

Berd spokes: Do they actually make the wheel more comfortable?

 Over this past week I got a question in the comments section regarding wheel vibration damping and if that was really a thing, or just a bunch of speculative, traditional, accepted bicycle lore that, in reality, doesn't exist. 

I do not claim to be a scientist, but I have read a lot of reports, listened to a lot of wise wheel people, and I have built hundreds of bicycle wheels. I have tested some of the most exotic combinations of materials for spokes and I have ridden some really bad designs. 

So, with my experience, learned over 30 years of being a mechanic, and with my lifetime of riding bicycles over 50 years now, I offer these thoughts and opinions on the subject. I'm not trying to sell you anything, and I am not trying to sell anyone else's stuff here. The following text is just my opinions on this subject, plain and simple. 

First of all, the dynamics of how a wheel system works might surprise you. I know when I learned what was actually going on with a rider on a bicycle when it comes to how a wheel works, I was a bit surprised. I'm not going to delve into all of that here, but I strongly recommend that you check out the subject. You could do worse than start here and in that short video you will see that there is a LOT of nerding out one can do on the subject of wheels. 

I'm sticking to wheel vibration damping characteristics and whether or not those are real or imagined. First off, what is 'damping' in terms of vibrations? (Hint- click the link) Essentially, in terms of what I am thinking about practically, I need to erase those pesky vibrations from crushed rock roads from buzzing my hands, feet, and rear end so I don't get fatigued as quickly, or go numb because my body is absorbing- or damping- that energy. 

The first line of defense: Your tires make the biggest difference of all in ride quality.

Obviously, we cannot discuss how a wheel damps vibrations, or even if it can, without discussing tires, because, well, no one should be riding on bare rims. We all are using tires. So that has to be included here. This is your first, and most effective part of the wheel system when it comes to damping vibrations. Tire air pressure is also critical. 

And again- I can write about that all day. But you must understand that how tires can work for you is WAY more important here than how the rest of the wheel will affect the ride. What a wheel might be able to add to the ride feel, vibration damping, and overall joy of your experience is minimized by how you choose a tire and how you choose to run it. (air pressure, tubed, tubeless) 

What is left over in terms of wheel ride feel is what vibrations are coming through the wheel system and then getting transferred into the fork/frame. Different materials will attenuate those frequencies, but they will not eliminate them. For instance, lower amplitude vibrations often are going to affect you as a rider no matter what you do, save running suspension components. But the good news is that those types of vibrations are not really the ones that knock you out so much as the high frequency ones do, which in my experience can be mostly attenuated out of the ride feel on a bicycle.(And not necessarily by using a wheel solution, by the way.)

The FLO Cycling wheels appeared too stiff- but were exactly the opposite of stiff.

So, to get rid of that energy we call vibration you need to dissipate it or absorb it. Dissipation of energy typically is a situation where something turns that energy into heat. Something typically has to move. Spokes don't typically 'move' per se', not in the traditional sense. They tension and lose tension, and they vibrate, at least steel spokes do. They are great at transferring vibration, and not so great at dissipating energy. Rims are not usually an ideal place to have vertical deflection, because - in a traditional rim design, that loads and unloads spokes even more which can lead to premature failures. Ideally, we don't want any rim deflection in a traditional wheel build, although- obviously- there is some. (See video linked in 4th paragraph)  

So, your carbon rim with typical steel spokes is not going to have a lot of vibration damping effect because it is designed to be stiff as all get-out. Especially so if it has low spoke count design. So where can we see a rim/spoke/hub set up that does have this vibration-eating quality? Box section rims? Interestingly, a study done on those wheels traditionally thought to be cobblestone dominating wheels, found them to be stiffer than modern wheels over cobbles! So, maybe that old saw that box section rims had some magical 'give' to them is just an old racers tale. 

Okay, so what could work? Well, a rim that actually deformed and damped vibrations without affecting the spokes. Or, spokes that actually stretched and compressed. Are there such things? Yes, there are. 

I tested a set of wheels from FLO Cycling with an aero profile, and while that is a whole 'nuther subject as well, the main benefit, in my opinion, was how the cross section of the rim worked. These were deep section wheels with the spokes attached at the innermost diameter of the rim, (think- at the pointy end towards the hub), and the deep section was kind of a bulged out, triangular shape in profile up to the wide rim bed. This "bulged out" section made a hollow interior. This allowed FLO Cycling to thin out those wall sections to where they actually flexed outward a bit when riding, and rougher surfaces activated this hysteresis (think like a tire deformation over a road surface) and that actually does something for you. Now keep in mind, the spokes are not a part of that section of the wheel, so this is why it can work. 

Berd spokes are woven fibers, and stretch like a rope.

I also tested, (at the same time period in 2020, ironically) a set of wheels which featured the amazing Berd fiber spokes. These woven spokes stretch and deform like a rope might do, and so they can also act in a similar way by hysteresis to damp vibrations and again- I could feel this. It was an attenuation of different frequencies than the FLO wheel set, but it was actually doing something a rider could benefit from. In a bit less dramatic way, the Spinergy GX and GXX wheels also do this. Not surprisingly those have fiber based spokes also.

So, in these instances, at least, where radically different design and material approaches were applied to wheel design, I think that you can expect a vibration damping benefit. However; when it comes to designs where the end result is more traditional, I have to raise an eyebrow here. 

While there may be some degree of vibration damping going on with more traditional wheel design models, it is minimal, at best, and your tire choice and the way that you set that tire up is going to have far, far more impact than the wheel will on vibration damping. I just don't see a wheel, in the traditional bicycle design sense, as being much of a benefit in this case. I think you have to look to these exotic solutions for any significant vibration damping effects. 

And then again, you have vibration damping handle bars, grips, saddles, stems, and gloves, bib shorts, and on and on. Bicycle fit is a huge thing here as well. There is just so much you can look at and do for yourself to find your "happy place". So, don't get lost in the weeds in wheel design, that is, unless that's your thing to nerd-out on. 

So, those are my thoughts, in general, on whether or not you can get a wheel to be a vibration damping device. Certainly, every wheel does this to a degree. But does that matter when the tire can be such a better way to get there? The only times I see that question being answered differently than "No" is where you have solutions like FLO Cycling and Berd. (And to a lesser extent- Spinergy PBO spokes) Then, yes, you are getting what you are looking for in a significant way. Those aren't the only solutions, I am sure, but those are the ones I am most familiar with that "do something" and are not just marketing-speak. 

Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!

Thoughts On Wheel Vibration Damping

Berd spokes: Do they actually make the wheel more comfortable?

 Over this past week I got a question in the comments section regarding wheel vibration damping and if that was really a thing, or just a bunch of speculative, traditional, accepted bicycle lore that, in reality, doesn't exist. 

I do not claim to be a scientist, but I have read a lot of reports, listened to a lot of wise wheel people, and I have built hundreds of bicycle wheels. I have tested some of the most exotic combinations of materials for spokes and I have ridden some really bad designs. 

So, with my experience, learned over 30 years of being a mechanic, and with my lifetime of riding bicycles over 50 years now, I offer these thoughts and opinions on the subject. I'm not trying to sell you anything, and I am not trying to sell anyone else's stuff here. The following text is just my opinions on this subject, plain and simple. 

First of all, the dynamics of how a wheel system works might surprise you. I know when I learned what was actually going on with a rider on a bicycle when it comes to how a wheel works, I was a bit surprised. I'm not going to delve into all of that here, but I strongly recommend that you check out the subject. You could do worse than start here and in that short video you will see that there is a LOT of nerding out one can do on the subject of wheels. 

I'm sticking to wheel vibration damping characteristics and whether or not those are real or imagined. First off, what is 'damping' in terms of vibrations? (Hint- click the link) Essentially, in terms of what I am thinking about practically, I need to erase those pesky vibrations from crushed rock roads from buzzing my hands, feet, and rear end so I don't get fatigued as quickly, or go numb because my body is absorbing- or damping- that energy. 

The first line of defense: Your tires make the biggest difference of all in ride quality.

Obviously, we cannot discuss how a wheel damps vibrations, or even if it can, without discussing tires, because, well, no one should be riding on bare rims. We all are using tires. So that has to be included here. This is your first, and most effective part of the wheel system when it comes to damping vibrations. Tire air pressure is also critical. 

And again- I can write about that all day. But you must understand that how tires can work for you is WAY more important here than how the rest of the wheel will affect the ride. What a wheel might be able to add to the ride feel, vibration damping, and overall joy of your experience is minimized by how you choose a tire and how you choose to run it. (air pressure, tubed, tubeless) 

What is left over in terms of wheel ride feel is what vibrations are coming through the wheel system and then getting transferred into the fork/frame. Different materials will attenuate those frequencies, but they will not eliminate them. For instance, lower amplitude vibrations often are going to affect you as a rider no matter what you do, save running suspension components. But the good news is that those types of vibrations are not really the ones that knock you out so much as the high frequency ones do, which in my experience can be mostly attenuated out of the ride feel on a bicycle.(And not necessarily by using a wheel solution, by the way.)

The FLO Cycling wheels appeared too stiff- but were exactly the opposite of stiff.

So, to get rid of that energy we call vibration you need to dissipate it or absorb it. Dissipation of energy typically is a situation where something turns that energy into heat. Something typically has to move. Spokes don't typically 'move' per se', not in the traditional sense. They tension and lose tension, and they vibrate, at least steel spokes do. They are great at transferring vibration, and not so great at dissipating energy. Rims are not usually an ideal place to have vertical deflection, because - in a traditional rim design, that loads and unloads spokes even more which can lead to premature failures. Ideally, we don't want any rim deflection in a traditional wheel build, although- obviously- there is some. (See video linked in 4th paragraph)  

So, your carbon rim with typical steel spokes is not going to have a lot of vibration damping effect because it is designed to be stiff as all get-out. Especially so if it has low spoke count design. So where can we see a rim/spoke/hub set up that does have this vibration-eating quality? Box section rims? Interestingly, a study done on those wheels traditionally thought to be cobblestone dominating wheels, found them to be stiffer than modern wheels over cobbles! So, maybe that old saw that box section rims had some magical 'give' to them is just an old racers tale. 

Okay, so what could work? Well, a rim that actually deformed and damped vibrations without affecting the spokes. Or, spokes that actually stretched and compressed. Are there such things? Yes, there are. 

I tested a set of wheels from FLO Cycling with an aero profile, and while that is a whole 'nuther subject as well, the main benefit, in my opinion, was how the cross section of the rim worked. These were deep section wheels with the spokes attached at the innermost diameter of the rim, (think- at the pointy end towards the hub), and the deep section was kind of a bulged out, triangular shape in profile up to the wide rim bed. This "bulged out" section made a hollow interior. This allowed FLO Cycling to thin out those wall sections to where they actually flexed outward a bit when riding, and rougher surfaces activated this hysteresis (think like a tire deformation over a road surface) and that actually does something for you. Now keep in mind, the spokes are not a part of that section of the wheel, so this is why it can work. 

Berd spokes are woven fibers, and stretch like a rope.

I also tested, (at the same time period in 2020, ironically) a set of wheels which featured the amazing Berd fiber spokes. These woven spokes stretch and deform like a rope might do, and so they can also act in a similar way by hysteresis to damp vibrations and again- I could feel this. It was an attenuation of different frequencies than the FLO wheel set, but it was actually doing something a rider could benefit from. In a bit less dramatic way, the Spinergy GX and GXX wheels also do this. Not surprisingly those have fiber based spokes also.

So, in these instances, at least, where radically different design and material approaches were applied to wheel design, I think that you can expect a vibration damping benefit. However; when it comes to designs where the end result is more traditional, I have to raise an eyebrow here. 

While there may be some degree of vibration damping going on with more traditional wheel design models, it is minimal, at best, and your tire choice and the way that you set that tire up is going to have far, far more impact than the wheel will on vibration damping. I just don't see a wheel, in the traditional bicycle design sense, as being much of a benefit in this case. I think you have to look to these exotic solutions for any significant vibration damping effects. 

And then again, you have vibration damping handle bars, grips, saddles, stems, and gloves, bib shorts, and on and on. Bicycle fit is a huge thing here as well. There is just so much you can look at and do for yourself to find your "happy place". So, don't get lost in the weeds in wheel design, that is, unless that's your thing to nerd-out on. 

So, those are my thoughts, in general, on whether or not you can get a wheel to be a vibration damping device. Certainly, every wheel does this to a degree. But does that matter when the tire can be such a better way to get there? The only times I see that question being answered differently than "No" is where you have solutions like FLO Cycling and Berd. (And to a lesser extent- Spinergy PBO spokes) Then, yes, you are getting what you are looking for in a significant way. Those aren't the only solutions, I am sure, but those are the ones I am most familiar with that "do something" and are not just marketing-speak. 

Thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!

Randomonium

  NOTE: Okay folks, if you haven't been around long enough here to know what a "Randomonium" post is, then here is the deal. I ramble, rant, and randomly moan about all things cycling in one, incohesive, bizarre post. "Randomonium", okay?

The refreshed Standard Rando v2

Standard Rando v2/Single Speed Wheel Update:

The refreshing of, and rebuilding of wheels for, the Standard Rando v2 is now complete. The final piece of the puzzle came in last week and I was able to get in a decent test ride before the cold came back again. 

To recap: I wanted a single speed specific wheel for the Standard Rando v2 since my Turkey Burn ride last November. That metric century ride proved to me beyond a doubt that I wanted to stick with single speed for this bike. 

Originally, back in 2020, when I got this bike, I was intending for it to be a geared bike, but what with the pandemic and all, I was fortunate to just get it up and running as a single speed. I left things as is and well, that is how it is going to be. 

So, instead of tying up a geared rear wheel on a single speed that would never see gears, I decided I needed a new wheel set. That prompted the purchase of a Paul rear single speed WORD hub with the through axle for the Standard Rando's 12mm through axle rear end. I inadvertently ordered a 32 spoke hole hub instead of a 28 hole drilling, as I had intended, because I had a set of 28 hole Velocity Blunt SS rims sitting in the Lab waiting to be laced to something. 

So, I ordered up a 32 hole Blunt SS rim. I had the spokes on hand and in the right colors to do my "Guitar Ted Signature" build which is black spokes on one side and silver on the other, reversed for the other wheel. So- Drive side rear = black, drive side front = silver, reversed for non-drive side. I dunno why.....I just think it looks cool! 

I am pretty sure every spoke is double butted and all have brass nipples. The front is something of an oddball. I have the original wheel set - well.....I had it, now one part is modified! Anyway, the front wheel rim, one side of the spokes, and the hub was a part of the Noble GX-5's original build. I took out the black spokes on one side and replaced them with silver, and boom! Done!

The rim is a Stan's Grail and the hub is a Stan's 'vanilla', average front hub. No big deal that they do not match because from five feet away, you cannot tell the difference. Maybe some day I'll get another Blunt SS and relace that, but I doubt I will. At any rate, I still have a good pair of Blunt SS rims waiting for hubs and spokes instead of one lone rim with no mate. 

Finally, I had to get a single speed freewheel. I really wanted to get a White Industries one, but I don't have White Industries money to spend at the moment, so I got an Origin 8 'Black Ops' 20T free wheel, (It's just s Far East free wheel, but a pretty good one) and put that on. We will see how long it hold up to Iowa gravel!  More soon.....

Testing the Redshift Sports ShockStop Pro post here.

Redshift ShockStop Pro Post Thoughts So Far...

I'm reviewing this for Riding Gravel (Standard Disclaimer applies) and while it looks like the post I reviewed previously here, it is almost nothing like that post. It is a very different experience. In that linked review I state that this post 'isolates the rider from vibrations'. This version does not seem to be the same in that manner. I'm still not sure what level of damping, if any, is going on here. 

It also does not feel 'floaty' at all. The previous ShockStop post I tried does kind of, well.....suspend you. It is a suspension seat post, after all. The coil spring sags under your weight until the spring rate supports you and you are kind of disconnected from the rest of the bike at that point. Full suspension mountain bike riders will be quite familiar with this feeling. It may be quite disconcerting for road riders or new-to-the-sport people. It does feel odd at first. 

But this post, which has one stock spring rate which is not user adjustable, does not do that. Nothing of the sort, so it feels more like a standard post. Now at that point, my mind is thinking 'why not just use a flexible standard post, like the Whiskey Carbon, or PRO Carbon Dyneema posts that I like so well?'

And there is the conundrum I am faced with sorting out at the moment. Is the Redshift Sports ShockStop Pro 'not worth it', or is it a 'bad design'? NO! It is a really well executed design and does work, but my question I have to answer is for which riders, and to what degree does this post complete its mission? I don't know the answers to those questions yet.

More ride time. That's what I need here.......

A 420mm axle to crown fork on my Blackbuck circa 2008.

More On Forks & Their Effects On Bikes:

 Last week's Ghost Grappler introduction cracked open the can-o-worms again concerning how fork length and offset can dramatically affect handling. This was because the Ghost Grappler, ("GG" from here on out), has a short (420mm) rigid fork with 50mm offset and that fork, the "Dinner Fork", is available aftermarket. 

I was asked in the comments about how such a fork would work on a 29'er. I said "Not very well", and that I had tried this. Well, today I bring you my examples.

In January of 2008 I got my OS Bikes Blackbuck and later that year I tried 8 different forks on it, all of which had different offsets and axle to crown lengths. In my testing I used the same wheels, tires, and I strove to keep the cockpit the same across all the set ups. (Which was a whole nuther story) This was to eliminate as many variables as I could. 

The Blackbuck with its stock rigid fork.

I'll spare you all the techno-mumbo-jumbo and cut to the chase. The shortest forks I tried were both 420mm axle to crown. The Black Ops was a cabon/aluminum composite fork with (if I recall correctly) 38mm offset. The Blackbuck fork, (came with the frame), had a 51mm offset. Both forks resulted in a waaaaaay steep 74° head angle. It was the offsets that were the diference maker. 

And boy! What a difference! That Black Ops fork was dead feeling and handled very weirdly. I did not like it at all. The Blackbuck fork was razor-sharp quick. You had to be on your "P's and Q's" to ride it. One moment of broken concentration and you were on your butt off the side of the trail. 

Neither was what I would call 'ideal' to ride. So, how does that relate to this GG fork- the Dinner Fork? Well, it has the same axle to crown as the two forks I tested 14 years ago. But it leans more towards the Blackbuck fork I have, with its 50mm offset than it does in regard to that old Black Ops fork. So, on most 29"er hard tails with shorter stock forks, you'd end up with 'crit bike' handling and a nervousness on technical terrain that would require maximum concentration to control. On a longer forked, 'modern-day' trail bike? No. Just no.... Those bikes are made to have LONG forks on them. Like 500mm and longer axle to crown forks, so a 420mm fork would be, almost, unrideable. 

So, unless your 29"er was made to have a 470mm or shorter fork stock, I'd forget about the GG fork as an option. That's my take.

Want more about forks? Let me know in the comments. 

That's it for today, thank you for reading!

Randomonium

  NOTE: Okay folks, if you haven't been around long enough here to know what a "Randomonium" post is, then here is the deal. I ramble, rant, and randomly moan about all things cycling in one, incohesive, bizarre post. "Randomonium", okay?

The refreshed Standard Rando v2

Standard Rando v2/Single Speed Wheel Update:

The refreshing of, and rebuilding of wheels for, the Standard Rando v2 is now complete. The final piece of the puzzle came in last week and I was able to get in a decent test ride before the cold came back again. 

To recap: I wanted a single speed specific wheel for the Standard Rando v2 since my Turkey Burn ride last November. That metric century ride proved to me beyond a doubt that I wanted to stick with single speed for this bike. 

Originally, back in 2020, when I got this bike, I was intending for it to be a geared bike, but what with the pandemic and all, I was fortunate to just get it up and running as a single speed. I left things as is and well, that is how it is going to be. 

So, instead of tying up a geared rear wheel on a single speed that would never see gears, I decided I needed a new wheel set. That prompted the purchase of a Paul rear single speed WORD hub with the through axle for the Standard Rando's 12mm through axle rear end. I inadvertently ordered a 32 spoke hole hub instead of a 28 hole drilling, as I had intended, because I had a set of 28 hole Velocity Blunt SS rims sitting in the Lab waiting to be laced to something. 

So, I ordered up a 32 hole Blunt SS rim. I had the spokes on hand and in the right colors to do my "Guitar Ted Signature" build which is black spokes on one side and silver on the other, reversed for the other wheel. So- Drive side rear = black, drive side front = silver, reversed for non-drive side. I dunno why.....I just think it looks cool! 

I am pretty sure every spoke is double butted and all have brass nipples. The front is something of an oddball. I have the original wheel set - well.....I had it, now one part is modified! Anyway, the front wheel rim, one side of the spokes, and the hub was a part of the Noble GX-5's original build. I took out the black spokes on one side and replaced them with silver, and boom! Done!

The rim is a Stan's Grail and the hub is a Stan's 'vanilla', average front hub. No big deal that they do not match because from five feet away, you cannot tell the difference. Maybe some day I'll get another Blunt SS and relace that, but I doubt I will. At any rate, I still have a good pair of Blunt SS rims waiting for hubs and spokes instead of one lone rim with no mate. 

Finally, I had to get a single speed freewheel. I really wanted to get a White Industries one, but I don't have White Industries money to spend at the moment, so I got an Origin 8 'Black Ops' 20T free wheel, (It's just s Far East free wheel, but a pretty good one) and put that on. We will see how long it hold up to Iowa gravel!  More soon.....

Testing the Redshift Sports ShockStop Pro post here.

Redshift ShockStop Pro Post Thoughts So Far...

I'm reviewing this for Riding Gravel (Standard Disclaimer applies) and while it looks like the post I reviewed previously here, it is almost nothing like that post. It is a very different experience. In that linked review I state that this post 'isolates the rider from vibrations'. This version does not seem to be the same in that manner. I'm still not sure what level of damping, if any, is going on here. 

It also does not feel 'floaty' at all. The previous ShockStop post I tried does kind of, well.....suspend you. It is a suspension seat post, after all. The coil spring sags under your weight until the spring rate supports you and you are kind of disconnected from the rest of the bike at that point. Full suspension mountain bike riders will be quite familiar with this feeling. It may be quite disconcerting for road riders or new-to-the-sport people. It does feel odd at first. 

But this post, which has one stock spring rate which is not user adjustable, does not do that. Nothing of the sort, so it feels more like a standard post. Now at that point, my mind is thinking 'why not just use a flexible standard post, like the Whiskey Carbon, or PRO Carbon Dyneema posts that I like so well?'

And there is the conundrum I am faced with sorting out at the moment. Is the Redshift Sports ShockStop Pro 'not worth it', or is it a 'bad design'? NO! It is a really well executed design and does work, but my question I have to answer is for which riders, and to what degree does this post complete its mission? I don't know the answers to those questions yet.

More ride time. That's what I need here.......

A 420mm axle to crown fork on my Blackbuck circa 2008.

More On Forks & Their Effects On Bikes:

 Last week's Ghost Grappler introduction cracked open the can-o-worms again concerning how fork length and offset can dramatically affect handling. This was because the Ghost Grappler, ("GG" from here on out), has a short (420mm) rigid fork with 50mm offset and that fork, the "Dinner Fork", is available aftermarket. 

I was asked in the comments about how such a fork would work on a 29'er. I said "Not very well", and that I had tried this. Well, today I bring you my examples.

In January of 2008 I got my OS Bikes Blackbuck and later that year I tried 8 different forks on it, all of which had different offsets and axle to crown lengths. In my testing I used the same wheels, tires, and I strove to keep the cockpit the same across all the set ups. (Which was a whole nuther story) This was to eliminate as many variables as I could. 

The Blackbuck with its stock rigid fork.

I'll spare you all the techno-mumbo-jumbo and cut to the chase. The shortest forks I tried were both 420mm axle to crown. The Black Ops was a cabon/aluminum composite fork with (if I recall correctly) 38mm offset. The Blackbuck fork, (came with the frame), had a 51mm offset. Both forks resulted in a waaaaaay steep 74° head angle. It was the offsets that were the diference maker. 

And boy! What a difference! That Black Ops fork was dead feeling and handled very weirdly. I did not like it at all. The Blackbuck fork was razor-sharp quick. You had to be on your "P's and Q's" to ride it. One moment of broken concentration and you were on your butt off the side of the trail. 

Neither was what I would call 'ideal' to ride. So, how does that relate to this GG fork- the Dinner Fork? Well, it has the same axle to crown as the two forks I tested 14 years ago. But it leans more towards the Blackbuck fork I have, with its 50mm offset than it does in regard to that old Black Ops fork. So, on most 29"er hard tails with shorter stock forks, you'd end up with 'crit bike' handling and a nervousness on technical terrain that would require maximum concentration to control. On a longer forked, 'modern-day' trail bike? No. Just no.... Those bikes are made to have LONG forks on them. Like 500mm and longer axle to crown forks, so a 420mm fork would be, almost, unrideable. 

So, unless your 29"er was made to have a 470mm or shorter fork stock, I'd forget about the GG fork as an option. That's my take.

Want more about forks? Let me know in the comments. 

That's it for today, thank you for reading!

Friday News And Views

The Trentasi 36"er gravel bike (Image from 36 POLLICI)

And You Thought 29" Wheels Were Big:

History Lesson: In 2006 Ben Witt hatched an idea to take 36 inch diameter uni-cycling wheels and put them into a bicycle. By early 2007 his idea was reality, and the buzz it created was a low hum in the background that never went away. (Learn more about the initial idea from my post about it here)

At the 2006 Dirty Kanza 200, a frame builder I spoke with proposed that the 36"er idea might be pretty cool for a gravel rig. His idea was that the big wheels would act like a fly wheel, storing energy for the climbs and gaining it back on the down hills. A rolling course might see such a big wheeled rig have an advantage, if the rider was hip to the momentum game. 

Nice theory, but in '06/'07, the technology and specifically, materials technology, had not been applied to this novelty wheel size. Later years saw companies developed around the sales of 36" wheels, most notably here, "Dirty Sixer", who cater to the larger framed humans amongst us. Another notable early proponent of the wheel size was custom bike builder, WaltWorks, who made several examples early on as well. 

Okay, now we have that as a backdrop for this: The 36 Pollici "Trentasei" Gravel Bike. This Italian based company also does MTB's in carbon, aluminum, and combinations of those materials. It was inevitable that something along these lines would eventually be done.

Comments: So, yeah.....like the frame builder back in 2006, I too have often wondered about the 36"er's potential for gravel travel fun. No doubt it would have certain advantages. That said, there are certain elements of such a bike that you cannot design out. The most important of those being wheel weight.

You often hear that wheel weight, and more importantly- where that weight is- will determine how well or not a wheel will perform. Too light and you actually harm the important flywheel effects that carry your energy through your pedaling 'dead spots'. (Think counterweights on a crank shaft as a way to understand that) Too heavy and the inertia factor raises its ugly head and imposes upon your energy reserves whenever you have to accelerate that mass. 

So, yeah....I've actually ridden a 36'er on a regular basis for a bit. I'd guess - and it is only a guess - that 36"er wheels would not be my preferred wheel size. And when you stop to think about where 700c came from, (a story far too long for this post), you will find other good reasons why we landed where we are. It's based in science and math folks. We didn't end up here by accident. 

The American Classic Wentworth from a ride I did in November.

More On The American Classic Company Comes To Light:

In the most recent "Bicycle Retailer and Industry News" it was reported that industry veteran Chris Clinton is working for American Classic now as of October 1st. This is not of relevance to many of you readers, but it stands out for me because I know Chris and have dealt with him on various occasions. 

Chris has done tires- mostly- since I have known him. I first met him when he was with Bontrager. Most recently I worked with him on a review of Challenge Tires' new Getaway model. I am glad to see he is at American Classic now as Chris has a wealth of knowledge concerning bicycle tires and should be able to bring a lot of improvements to this range of tires. 

Secondly, and of more import to you, the reader, is that the article mentions Chris as saying that at some point we can expect American Classic wheels again. This should be good news, since the new American Classic company has all the intellectual properties from the original American Classic company. 

I would suspect rim designs, which were excellent, and perhaps even that unique hub design the company had, to be re-introduced in the wheel line. Current wide inner widths for gravel will need to be addressed as the former American Classic gravel wheels would be considered far too narrow internally than the competition offers in 2021 and beyond. Hopefully the American Classic wheel, when it comes out, will feature a gravel tire friendly 24-25mm internal rim width, at least, which I feel is pretty much the sweet spot for internal widths on gravel wheels.

New Member Of The Family:

Meet Felix. He's the newest member of the family around here. Seems that Mrs. Guitar Ted thought that our first feline, Minka, needed a companion. So, last weekend Felix came home to live with us.

He, like Minka before him, came from the Cedar Valley Humane Society shelter. Felix also is a full black cat, (UPDATE: Wait! We found a white patch of fur on his belly!) and we purposely wanted a black cat because they are hardest, (from what I hear) to place with adoptive families. 

So, yeah......no superstitions here. I've actually never thought black cats were unlucky. And, the name, Felix, was specifically chosen to reflect that. Well, that and because I watched Felix The Cat when I was a youngster. 

So far integrating the year and a half old Minka with the 10 week old Felix has been going alright. I mean, they have their moments and it reminds me somewhat of when we had small children. Jealousy, competitiveness, and such things are part of the deal we have to work through. Then you have a baby cat, full of the berries, and it can be a handful. But it is fun and we'll get through. 

Wilde Bicycle Co. Announced- New "Earth Ship" Gravel Bike: 

Monday news broke on a new bicycle company based in Minnesota called the Wilde Bicycle Co. The company is run by former All City Bikes head honcho, Jeff Frane and he is joined in this new venture by Angry Catfish bike shop owners Josh Klauk and Andy Tesh. 

Their company offers US made steel and titanium frames for mountain (Yo-Jeffy) and gravel (Earth Ship), although the press release stated bicycle frames in aluminum would also be offered. 

Frames can be ordered in stock sizes, modified somewhat by semi-custom order, or completely customized frame/fork bicycles can be ordered through Wilde. Earth Ship models in steel start at $2500.00 and in titanium for $3900.00. 

Furthermore; the site states that their geometry is a 'trade secret" and that they do not want their work being copied. While elsewhere it also states that the head and seat tube angles are "fairly traditional". 

Comments: Okay, Jeff Frane has a track record of designing cool bikes at All City. The Angry Catfish guys have experience with manufacturing small batch stuff and have a great business model for selling upscale bicycles. But some of this is a bit odd. USA made frames in "stock" sizes starting at well over 2G? And in a geometry you are keeping "secret"? Let's be honest here- If I am spending nearly three grand on a frame and fork I will know the geometry first. I am betting customers will have this info provided to them. Otherwise, uh.....fairly traditional angles doesn't sound all that "proprietary" to my way of thinking. 

And how much different will this be from an All City Cosmic Stallion? I bet it isn't by very much, if at all. Maybe they have used nicer, thinner frame tubing at Wilde for a nicer ride? I don't know... But that aside, the "DNA" from All City is apparent here. And why wouldn't it be? 

That's a wrap on news for this week. Have a great weekend and thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!

Friday News And Views

The Trentasi 36"er gravel bike (Image from 36 POLLICI)

And You Thought 29" Wheels Were Big:

History Lesson: In 2006 Ben Witt hatched an idea to take 36 inch diameter uni-cycling wheels and put them into a bicycle. By early 2007 his idea was reality, and the buzz it created was a low hum in the background that never went away. (Learn more about the initial idea from my post about it here)

At the 2006 Dirty Kanza 200, a frame builder I spoke with proposed that the 36"er idea might be pretty cool for a gravel rig. His idea was that the big wheels would act like a fly wheel, storing energy for the climbs and gaining it back on the down hills. A rolling course might see such a big wheeled rig have an advantage, if the rider was hip to the momentum game. 

Nice theory, but in '06/'07, the technology and specifically, materials technology, had not been applied to this novelty wheel size. Later years saw companies developed around the sales of 36" wheels, most notably here, "Dirty Sixer", who cater to the larger framed humans amongst us. Another notable early proponent of the wheel size was custom bike builder, WaltWorks, who made several examples early on as well. 

Okay, now we have that as a backdrop for this: The 36 Pollici "Trentasei" Gravel Bike. This Italian based company also does MTB's in carbon, aluminum, and combinations of those materials. It was inevitable that something along these lines would eventually be done.

Comments: So, yeah.....like the frame builder back in 2006, I too have often wondered about the 36"er's potential for gravel travel fun. No doubt it would have certain advantages. That said, there are certain elements of such a bike that you cannot design out. The most important of those being wheel weight.

You often hear that wheel weight, and more importantly- where that weight is- will determine how well or not a wheel will perform. Too light and you actually harm the important flywheel effects that carry your energy through your pedaling 'dead spots'. (Think counterweights on a crank shaft as a way to understand that) Too heavy and the inertia factor raises its ugly head and imposes upon your energy reserves whenever you have to accelerate that mass. 

So, yeah....I've actually ridden a 36'er on a regular basis for a bit. I'd guess - and it is only a guess - that 36"er wheels would not be my preferred wheel size. And when you stop to think about where 700c came from, (a story far too long for this post), you will find other good reasons why we landed where we are. It's based in science and math folks. We didn't end up here by accident. 

The American Classic Wentworth from a ride I did in November.

More On The American Classic Company Comes To Light:

In the most recent "Bicycle Retailer and Industry News" it was reported that industry veteran Chris Clinton is working for American Classic now as of October 1st. This is not of relevance to many of you readers, but it stands out for me because I know Chris and have dealt with him on various occasions. 

Chris has done tires- mostly- since I have known him. I first met him when he was with Bontrager. Most recently I worked with him on a review of Challenge Tires' new Getaway model. I am glad to see he is at American Classic now as Chris has a wealth of knowledge concerning bicycle tires and should be able to bring a lot of improvements to this range of tires. 

Secondly, and of more import to you, the reader, is that the article mentions Chris as saying that at some point we can expect American Classic wheels again. This should be good news, since the new American Classic company has all the intellectual properties from the original American Classic company. 

I would suspect rim designs, which were excellent, and perhaps even that unique hub design the company had, to be re-introduced in the wheel line. Current wide inner widths for gravel will need to be addressed as the former American Classic gravel wheels would be considered far too narrow internally than the competition offers in 2021 and beyond. Hopefully the American Classic wheel, when it comes out, will feature a gravel tire friendly 24-25mm internal rim width, at least, which I feel is pretty much the sweet spot for internal widths on gravel wheels.

New Member Of The Family:

Meet Felix. He's the newest member of the family around here. Seems that Mrs. Guitar Ted thought that our first feline, Minka, needed a companion. So, last weekend Felix came home to live with us.

He, like Minka before him, came from the Cedar Valley Humane Society shelter. Felix also is a full black cat, (UPDATE: Wait! We found a white patch of fur on his belly!) and we purposely wanted a black cat because they are hardest, (from what I hear) to place with adoptive families. 

So, yeah......no superstitions here. I've actually never thought black cats were unlucky. And, the name, Felix, was specifically chosen to reflect that. Well, that and because I watched Felix The Cat when I was a youngster. 

So far integrating the year and a half old Minka with the 10 week old Felix has been going alright. I mean, they have their moments and it reminds me somewhat of when we had small children. Jealousy, competitiveness, and such things are part of the deal we have to work through. Then you have a baby cat, full of the berries, and it can be a handful. But it is fun and we'll get through. 

Wilde Bicycle Co. Announced- New "Earth Ship" Gravel Bike: 

Monday news broke on a new bicycle company based in Minnesota called the Wilde Bicycle Co. The company is run by former All City Bikes head honcho, Jeff Frane and he is joined in this new venture by Angry Catfish bike shop owners Josh Klauk and Andy Tesh. 

Their company offers US made steel and titanium frames for mountain (Yo-Jeffy) and gravel (Earth Ship), although the press release stated bicycle frames in aluminum would also be offered. 

Frames can be ordered in stock sizes, modified somewhat by semi-custom order, or completely customized frame/fork bicycles can be ordered through Wilde. Earth Ship models in steel start at $2500.00 and in titanium for $3900.00. 

Furthermore; the site states that their geometry is a 'trade secret" and that they do not want their work being copied. While elsewhere it also states that the head and seat tube angles are "fairly traditional". 

Comments: Okay, Jeff Frane has a track record of designing cool bikes at All City. The Angry Catfish guys have experience with manufacturing small batch stuff and have a great business model for selling upscale bicycles. But some of this is a bit odd. USA made frames in "stock" sizes starting at well over 2G? And in a geometry you are keeping "secret"? Let's be honest here- If I am spending nearly three grand on a frame and fork I will know the geometry first. I am betting customers will have this info provided to them. Otherwise, uh.....fairly traditional angles doesn't sound all that "proprietary" to my way of thinking. 

And how much different will this be from an All City Cosmic Stallion? I bet it isn't by very much, if at all. Maybe they have used nicer, thinner frame tubing at Wilde for a nicer ride? I don't know... But that aside, the "DNA" from All City is apparent here. And why wouldn't it be? 

That's a wrap on news for this week. Have a great weekend and thanks for reading Guitar Ted Productions!